Welcome to this week's episode of freedom Fridays. My guest this week is Karan Ferrell-Rhodes. Good morning. Good afternoon or good evening, Karan, depending on where you're based?
Good evening, I'm based in Atlanta, Georgia. So it's evening right now.
Wow. See, one of the benefits of the internet been able to do this all around the world?
That's true. That's absolutely right. I just got off a call yesterday with someone from Australia.
So yeah, for those listening, I'm recording this in Sydney on here we are 1000s of miles away. Current in Atlanta, Georgia. Karan, thank you so much for being on the podcast, I know that you are an author, you are the founder and CEO of shockingly different leadership, which I'm intrigued about the genesis of the title and the reaction it gets. But before we maybe get into that, I'm going to start with the question that I often start with and given this as about freedom Fridays in the work that you do with the clients and the customers and the CEOs and the leaders that you work with? What does freedom mean for them?
That's a great question. And I'm sure you can appreciate it, it differs and varies a little bit based on the individual themselves. But if I had to identify just a bucket that I would put all of their fears in, it probably be the fear of having impostor syndrome, okay, which is you know, all about, they're just not sure of their next step, or they're unsure if they have the capabilities to do what's in front of them. And it's amazing how many leaders you would think have it all together, but a lot of the really suffer from impostor syndrome.
Yeah, that's, that's been my experience, too. It's, it's amazing for me to even think that people think leaders have got all sorted. When you and I both know, almost, I can't think of any leader that I've ever worked with, that doesn't have some imperfection?
Absolutely, absolutely.
I think the presence of imperfection doesn't get in the way.
It does get in the way, what I've seen, and you might have to correct me if you say something different, but it doesn't get in the way publicly. But behind the scenes, it does get in the way of how they plan their next move, or the next action that they do that affects whatever they're working on. Right?
And can you maybe without revealing any confidence, can you expand a little bit on how specifically it gets in the way? Do they falter? Do they go slow? Do they make the wrong choices? How does it get in the way?
Yeah, well, if they're they're not very astute and really test out their assumptions or getting more data to make a better calculated risk decision, than it does transpire into their actual performance on what they're doing. But if they're astute enough to try to get as much information and data to make a good decision, usually those are the ones that end up surviving, if you will. Right.
Okay. I know that you've done some research, which I'm going to touch on in a second. Broadly, was there any Did you notice any pattern differences between age? tenure? gender, location? Sector? Well, there any obvious pattern differences?
Yes, to all of the above. Because it's the whole dynamic in the workplace or the work world that caused the variation. So yes, you saw a lot of different things. And you could lump it together, you know, a lot of times based on one of those demographic items that you mentioned, for instance, and financial services. You know, I see a lot of leaders struggle with how you know, normal and the rules of the road kind of in Wall Street and what have you, compared to what a lot of other companies are. Leaders are experiencing now with a more relaxed and agile and flexible working environment. So, yeah, it's a little bit of everywhere.
Yeah, sure. Okay. I I'm going to come back because I'm intrigued, shockingly different leadership. How did you come about the name? And is it just a marketing tool? Or are you? And how specifically are you shockingly different? I'm intrigued.
By the day, right, that we do strive to what we call provide shockingly different results, meaning over and above your expectations for whatever people initiative that you're tackling So, but it is a combination of where our passionate route started, as well is to be honest with you, it does help with marketing, a lot of people want to know or meet or talk to us to see what the heck is going on.
Yeah, it's a good hook. Yeah. How would you say apart from results? Are you shockingly different in any other ways?
Well, we really try to meet our clients where they are, which is a lot different than some of the more established or larger consulting firms, you know, your McKinsey's and things of the world, we don't have a cookie cutter approach, we get in there, no matter how messy it is, and then work with them to help us decide where we want to target and how we're going to do it. So we hope by you know, going above and beyond and striving to differentiate ourselves at every level of service. Hopefully, they will give it a shot way different results.
Are you shockingly different, Karan.
Some days I am. Even time on the East Coast, not as much. But I will say that one of the reasons behind the term was because I built the last half of my corporate career around being a leader for keeping talent or high potential talent and, and the slogan varies based on you know, what company you're working in. But these, you know, generally were individuals that were in the top three to 5%, of recognised leaders at the organisation, they were kind of your cream of the crop, the you know, the company's hopes were on. And, you know, even when you're successful, you still need ongoing development to kind of prepare you to the next step. So having made a name and in my circling world around dealing with these top performing leaders, but also help with the name thinking about, you know, cycling different, we're cycling different, we need to be slightly different to support you and you are different leaders, you know.
Yeah. It's intrigued me over the years, because like you said, there's many different names and acronyms used for high potential people, leaders. I'm intrigued because I'm a firm believer in the self fulfilling prophecy.
So what happens if I'm not quite a high potential leader yet? My talent and potential is latent and unobserved and unseen and hidden? For whatever reason, impostor syndrome hadn't had the opportunity. I'm this age, this gender, this, this this location? How do I
break through that to be seen as someone with high potential?
So that's a great question. And that's actually what the genesis of my book was about. I didn't know if he wanted to go into that research. But that was how that was the basic question that we were trying to solve in our research. Okay. Would you like me to share?
Yeah, sure. Yeah, please. Yeah, I believe you are an author. And the book was called leading at the top of your game.
Yes, yes. And you were spot on that the core question that we were trying to solve were what did these top leaders do so differently that differentiated them for the other 95% of the population? What did they do? At no, blah, blah, blah. And so we actually surveyed and, and did validation research with over 10,000 high potential employees and organisations, these are people that their leaders have designated them as, you know, being on succession, sleds, and then you know, next in line for promotions, those kind of individuals. And so long story short, we surveyed to try to get to the meat of what types of actions that they do. Long story short, we had identified over 100 actions. But what was interesting He was there as a clear line of separation, and the top seven that were flushed out. And what was more interesting about the top seven is that they applied no matter, industry or job function or what have you. And so these are the seven that now, our firm here at SDL, has made part of our signature Leadership Programme and we teach their tactics, their behaviours, more than just Leadership Theory. Okay.
You have your own Magnificent Seven.
I do I do. And I just quickly run down them because they're not brain surgery type of things.
But ya know, a lot was good. I was I didn't want to put you under pressure. Although I'd expect you to know. I'd been trade because maybe that's the next part of our conversation, what are the top seven tactics?
Okay, so the top seven tactics, these means elite leaders did that really impacted the success of their efforts. The first one was they lead with what we call intellectual horsepower. So intellectual horsepower is all about using your area of expertise to spot trends that others miss. So they were able to bring something to the table that most individuals missed or didn't know or recognise that or organisation. The second one is called leading with courageous agility. And that is all about just having the courage to stand up for what you believe in, even if you're unsure of what's going to be next, or how the reactions of individuals are going to be. So they were successful, they're successful in Legion leading courageous agility, they usually won the buy in of others that they were trying to talk to and influence. The third tactic that they use is they lead with strategic decision making, which is just what it sounds like. They either made good decisions themselves, or they lead a good decision making process. The fourth one, they lead with intrapreneurship. So similar to entrepreneurship, that intrapreneurship is that where they made improvements to the product services of the organisation with the internal infrastructure, so they were able to use the company's assets to help improve products and services and processes. The fifth one, they lead with a drive for results, which means what it is they just were tenacious about getting to their goals, even if they were pivots, of course corrections along the way. The sixth one, they lead with executive presence, which is really more about being able to make clear and convincing perspectives or arguments to influence others. And the last one is they lead with what we call stakeholder savvy. And that's all about making the interpersonal connections to deepen trust, and be able to move things forward. So those are the seven intellectual horsepower, courageous agility, strategic decision making intrapreneurship drive for results, executive presence and stakeholder savvy.
Wow, it sounds like they should be doing an audition for The New Avengers movie.
Oh, yeah, right. There were stars all around. But what I will share, what was interesting is that all seven are equally important. But you would lead with a deep knowledge in that area based on what you are challenging. So it's, you know, one point you might be presented the idea to the C suite, that's when your executive presence kick in. Other times, you might want to get other people on board who disagree with you, that's when your stakeholder savvy kicks in. So you pull in different levers, if you will I use a different tactics based on what challenges you're facing.
Sure. Yeah. Entry. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
I'm assuming that wasn't too much. I didn't
want to know if it's okay. I'm just gonna, you know, double click on a couple of them. So, you said that the we're all equal,
equal in importance, one's not more valuable than another, but they do all help you differentiate yourself when you're leading any kind of leadership effort?
Sure. And did you find that any of those particular tactics they had inherently they brought with them and which ones did they have to build and grow and develop? Because I'm gonna guess that they just didn't show up with all of this at the same time.
Now, that's interesting that you say that, actually, yes, they do. Everyone has the ability to do all seven of them. But your your level of acumen and carrying it out, based on you know what You're facing is different. And so one of the things that we offer even in our leadership training programme, based on the research, we actually created the diagnostic where we people can take the assessment and see their level of acumen in each of the seven. So, you know, you, but everyone has the innate ability and capability to do all of them. Because remember, these are just tactics or actions or behaviours that are done.
Sure. So I guess that leads me down to my, I guess, exploration around the self fulfilling prophecy if everyone's got the innate ability? Why does it show up in some and not in others?
That's a great question. And once again, I think the answers are quite varied. From some, they struggle with knowing how to do them and show up and there is a concept called the exit principle, which is, without boring your audience, it really means that is once you get to a point that you don't have enough expertise to move you forward or struggle, you know, if you're struggling with it, then you're gonna leave and look for greener pastures. Right. So what I was just lost my train of thought, I'm sorry, telling me your question one more time.
I was interested in, you said that everyone has the innate ability or capability to demonstrate these seven behaviours, whenever you might call them. If that's the case, given the self fulfilling prophecy, what prevents some people from not showing them or no, yes.
Yeah, so that was just saying that either not knowing how to do it or struggling and just giving up. I just, I don't think that is correlated to their desire to do well, they just, you know, just struggle not knowing next steps and not having resources to find the information for next steps.
I know that you you did this research on the kind of top three or 4%. And these were the factors that came out as equitable that seemed to differentiate them. I'm assuming that there was some 10 year involved with these leaders, they probably weren't brand new graduates. And so did your research, explore how they came to that place? How did they get to the point where they were strong enough? It was visible enough, it was demonstrable enough that they could say, I've got an executive presence? I'm strategic decision maker. I'm guessing it didn't just have to weren't born like that.
Well, that's it. Well, let me go back, let me correct something. So actually, we did survey individuals at different career stages. So from early career right after university all the way up through the C suite directs the next level under the CC so we did have different career stages that we we surveyed. And not surprising, as you can probably imagine, those that were more early in their career weren't quite as sharp, or we didn't know as much of what to do, then you're tenured individuals kind of at your director or VP levels, right. So everybody, as I mentioned, has the some sort of ability it might be, might be slight, but everyone has the ability to do all seven. And then we love measured the level of acumen and all seven, and tie them into leadership competencies that, you know, most companies use, you know, when they're evaluating their people. So there is a massive connection to everything.
So I'm interested in maybe tapping into your experience, then currently, if I came to you as a junior exec, and you know, I'd read your book and went, I want to develop these seven. I'm pretty okay, on intellectual horsepower. I'm okay with strategic decision making. But I'd like to become more stakeholder savvy. Yeah. How would I go about that?
Yeah, so we have a whole development area for each our process and tools for each of these seven. So for stakeholders savvy per instance, it depends upon what aspect that you're trying to sharpen it can and things that can support you can be anywhere from emotional intelligence training, all the way through, you know, body language, training our communication skills, or you know, just depends upon what area that we've identified that you may want to double down on. But the basic of having sex stakeholder savvy is being very observant and astute about the manner perception, perspectives, values and the people that you're talking to, so that you can reciprocate, if you will, to deepen that relationship and deepen that conversation. So we have a whole development workshop on each one of those seven that we do as part of our development experience. Sure, and how would I choose? Well, that's when you would take the assessment, and we would see which ones we should target based on your results. And then that's where we would start. Now, realistically, you should always be nurturing all seven to, you know, build your acumen and all seven, but you can't do them all at once. It's to go really deep. And so that's where, you know, individual group coaching, or self study comes in?
Sure. One of the comments I get from the clients I work with here is what look, I'd love to, you know, grow up, I'd love to develop myself, I'd love to get some coaching, I'd love to do X, Y, Zed. I don't have the time I've got a job to do. Right, you know, be you, I am just smashed with priorities after priorities after priorities. So how do you reconcile how do you how would you help me reconcile your comment that when you have to natural seven, when I'm already working, you know, eight to late. I'm in a global firm, which means I'm taking calls at midnight, because I'm in the US and they're in Australia, and I've got a European colleague and an Asian call it you know, how do you help someone reconcile the need to work on all seven, when I'm already full?
Well, remember, I said, you can prioritise based on your results out of the diagnostics. So the areas that you have scored the lowest and or have in the acumen, then maybe that's the one or one or two, but depend upon your bandwidth that you go deep on. And I have a tool that's part of our, our coaching approach, where we actually work on a real world business challenge that they're experiencing in their role right now. And as we work it through with them, through their, their coaching sessions, we talk about how they can be more effective in those areas that they wanted to develop. So we work it with them as they're going through a real world challenge. And most people leaders have something on their docket that they're really working through that they could use a, you know, coaching on. And so, you know, that's how we bring it to life for them.
Sure, I'm not no doubt, I'm going to be a little bit sceptical and play back what I think some clients would say, certainly the clients I work through, that's all good and well, current, that's lovely. I don't have the time.
And you know what, sometimes if you're not, don't have that bandwidth and the time to dedicate towards development, and investing in yourself at that point in time, I think it's totally fine. Because you have to have SilkAir, there's some times when individuals aren't able to, because life comes along. But when if you're able to find the bandwidth, then you're willing to tackle maybe at least one, then yeah, I'll be here for you. And so it's okay.
Is there an X factor? To? Well, it's interesting, all these are pretty, I guess, visible. And I'm wondering if at the highest level of performance, there's an X factor. You know, sometimes when people get jobs, or they don't get jobs, we know we can't quite articulate what it is. But there's something different about Karan compared to Pete. Karan just has something about how that just elevates are a bit more than what we observe. And Pete, she's got the X Factor. And it's called The X Factor because we can't articulate it. And I don't know what that's because we can't articulate it, or we just don't know how to it. Is there any element of these top three, four or 5% having some sort of X Factor?
You know, I did not research that to be honest with you, Pete. So I don't you know, I'm not going to make up as you know an answer for them. I'm
interested in your gut feel to your experience.
I can give you the Karan's perspective after Yeah, that's
what I liked. Yeah.
I do think there's an X factor. And I think it's very tough, as you have already defined that to articulate it. They're just some individuals They're able to put together all the savvy and acumen that they need at any point in time, and on a consistent basis to really bring things to life. And that is the type of individual that folks are saying, Gosh, Pete is, you know, the bomb, he's so wonderful. But they wouldn't feel comfortable probably sitting down and writing a list of adjectives about you, they just No, no, you this the same way, Pete, that when you go to any kind of conference, or when you have a speaker up there, you probably know, in five minutes or less, whether they're going to be a great speaker or not, or they're going to appeal to your style of speaking. It doesn't take you 45 minutes to realise whether you like them or not. And I think that's similar with, you know, true leaders. They just do that X factor. Yeah. You,
you said that you might you research the top three or 4%.
And these companies designated where their
compensation at? Yeah, well, there, were there any outliers.
As far as that didn't meet the seven,
yeah, that didn't meet the seven or that weren't high potential that did. I'm just interesting, any of the outline for any outliers.
There are people that I would call on the bubble there that exhibited a lot of the behaviours and had scored high on acumen. But for some reason, didn't come together, or they still weren't prioritise or rank higher than others. There are some different out, you know, outliers there also, to be honest with the I mean, these are approaches or tactics. These are the what we were trying to share with others. But to your point, there are individuals that are identified as really high potential organisation, but don't have the passion or don't want to do what's expected for whatever reason. And they're not identified in that top three to five that we would have done for this research. And I, yeah, so anyhow, yeah.
And whether were there any, any of the top people that you researched, that they have impostor syndrome, but were able to navigate it and address it and dilute it? Or did they just not have impostor syndrome?
You know, it's a lot of both. Probably 6040, maybe 60 had some level of imposter syndrome. Most of them to be honest with you. It wasn't paralysing, and it couldn't be for them to reach the level of recognition that they've experienced. But everyone had some sort of uncertainty about themselves.
Have you noticed and those that had it? Have you noticed any pattern? Is it an age thing is a gender thing is a location things?
It was equal across the board? Everybody had something that that was? The Gremlin that's talking in their other ear? Yeah.
Were you able to understand some of the sources of that?
Ido and I know you're hate me saying this all the time. It just depends upon the person. Sometimes there were, you know, family pressures and things and values that they brought up with that they were trying to prove something different. Others, you know, there might have been a workplace leader that they're trying to impress or, or they got a bad, you know, performance review or feedback. And that's gotten to their head, it just differs based on the individual.
So it was the answer when you talk about humans isn't it depends.
Yeah. What have you seen? I'm curious. What have you seen in that room?
Well, what I've seen is, sadly, it's more prominent in women.
And I'd say though, it didn't come out as significantly statistically different, right. But I can maybe understand most your clients, you know, that was prevalent.
Yeah. And there's a little bit of research and it's pretty well documented. You know, a job ad comes up, and if it was 10 characteristics, and a man has six of them, they'll go, I'll be fine. Yeah, each of them, they'll go on. I'm not ready for it yet. Right. Sandy, which is what you is quite sad. Really?
Yes. It is very sad. And I think that's why you'll see so many, you know, especially groups or networks or development opportunities just for women, you know, so they can help tackle that.
To them is a good thing
I do, I think it's a good thing. But I think it's great in combination with more broader type of development experiences, because we live in a world together, you know, and so it's not going to be isolated, you might be able to have some, gain some confidence or get some tools to use when you're having tough conversations, and you can talk about it freely in the comfort of your demographic that you're in. But I do think supplementing that with the world, because that's how we're having to operate. That will balance you out quite a bit.
was most of you work in research on the US current?
Most of it was it was about an 80/20 split 80% The Earth since money in other countries.
Do you notice any pattern there? Is it is it? How is it? How is it different if any? US non US?
It does vary based on and this is very stereotypical. Right. But based on the general cultures of the countries, for instance, you know, in America, we're known as being a bit more out there and brash as compared to some of your Asian cultures that are more reserved, you know. And based on the cultures, some areas, people weren't quite as skilled in as compared to others. Like, for instance, in the end, the Asian high potentials in general, they scored a little bit less on stakeholders to heavy versus intellectual horsepower, a lot of them were able to bring forward improvements there. They're very focused on that, in general, not everybody but in general. So yes, it did vary based on countries and cultures and values.
Okay. I'm going to maybe put a little bit of pressure on here for you hope you don't mind. I'm interested in Karan's perspective here. Let's say I come to you as an executive. And I'm doing well. I'm in the top three to 5%. But I have aspirations for different roles, different sectors who would take me outside my comfort zone. And when I think about my comfort zone immediately, Mr. And Mrs. Imposter Syndrome kicks in. Mr. Mrs. What imposter syndrome kicks in? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that kicks in because I'm about to extend myself. And we have a two minute elevator, right?
Where I'm trying to download Karan's experience in two minutes. So I'm acknowledging there's more to it. And I know the answer is it depends. But if you had to give me some advice on how I might address the impostor syndrome, as I apply for this new role that's outside my comfort zone based on your own experience, what top two or three tactics would you share with me?
One tactic I would say is that if you can think of some sort of connection with the person that you're going to go talk to, that is a priority for them. I would start say, make sure that you start the conversation with wanting to talk to him about him or her about something that is a top priority for them. That's the first way to kind of catch their attention to buy you a few more minutes of conversation. That's one thing. The other thing I would recommend is an affirmation around. Positively I always say me personally, for myself, there's nothing short of our that we can't course correct or do and so since that's the case, why don't you just go for it, you know, so I would try to help them give some type of self affirmations to get up the courage to have the conversation. And then that would be your stakeholder savvy and your courageous agility. And then I'd probably recommend a bit of executive executive presence where you sum up the grit to make your presentation or your argument or your conversation in a way that's meaningful to them, who you're talking to, and that's going to really make a difference and make it worth their while. earn the right to be heard. That's what we always try to do. To reiterate to our participants, you got to earn that right to be here.
Which is interesting, isn't it? Given some of our some of the activism that's going on? We have the right anyway. So I mean, I'm interested in that distinction. You're suggesting that on one hand, I need to earn the right. Yeah, there is there is there is some, there is an account of view the fact that I'm an employee, or I'm a leader, I've got the right.
That is a counter
what perspective what would you how would you what would you say the differences, if there is any
earn the right, in my opinion, to earning the right, is creating enough value then differentiate you that you that they want to listen more tomorrow to you have in the right, in my opinion, do this more on company values and cultures? Do they create the environment that gives you the right to step forward? And to get recognised? And to do this? If they don't? You know, then what? So that's it. That's how I see it as being different.
Okay. Do you sense that the right to be heard is up, across, down, out?
All ended up down and across the organisation?
So you know, the question, I'm going to ask that, how would you differentiate between owning the right above? So let's say I'm a CEO, and I'm reporting to a board? How would you differentiate the Aaron the right capability to be heard at the board level, versus earned the right to perhaps have my employees be heard, so I'm hearing them,
I actually think the same process happens. For all three, you have to focus your conversations around what's meaningful, impactful, and worthy of their time, or whoever you're talking to. I personally, don't think that you have the right to go and present to a board level, if it's not a topic or something that you're capable or asked to do. That's not something that's just right to be there. However, whoever you're trying to work with, whether it's your C suite or board, your peers in the company, or your direct report, you're going to have to talk in a way that's always meaningful for them, and find that Win Win conversation. Then read, you have to do the work, you know,
yeah, what's the work they have to do?
And understanding you're not going to know, what is piece number one work priority, or what's their number one challenge that maybe I can help with if you never had a conversation with Pete. So it you know that there are colleagues that are in your sphere, if you will, that you all have interdependencies, it's worth the time to take to build even some, you know, entry level relationships with these individuals. So that, you know, you're going to be able to assess better what their priorities are, because once you know that, then you're able to kind of navigate, it helps give you data, you're not going to be perfect, everybody's there's not a perfect way to execute all these. But at least you'll have better tools in your toolbox and have a better acumen and how to address things like really hard conversations or when you get pushback, you know, those types of issues.
Yeah. This might be a cheeky question, Karan. So forgive me, have you done your own assessment?
I have done my own assessment.
So I'm not going to embarrass you to see whether you were in the top three or 5% or not. But I'm interested of the seven tactics that you said, and which ones did you find? I don't mean easy as it was easy but more natural for you because that's more your style and your way of being versus which ones that you find more challenging for you.
Great question. The, I love the whole leading with intellectual horsepower. I am a voracious reader, researcher, consumer of data information articles, and I try to my mind the way my mind works, it tries to connect dots around with different things that I've read and seeing how I would guess transmit be that's just how my mind works. Where I struggle, and I don't mind sharing is around courageous agility. I am so much of a people person, very emotional that I, my innate nature is not to want to disappoint anyone. And we've been in leadership roles and just sometimes that disappointment comes with the territory. So that's when I continuously struggle in. But I always tried to strive to be better every
day. And how do you manage your own imposter syndrome? When it kicks in?
I have a variety of things, I have a playlist with a kick in the butt kind of songs to pick you back up and get back in there. Yeah, to do that, and sometimes to do meditation, and honestly, sometimes I just have to talk to myself and say, Let's do it.
Currently, where can people get ahold of you? If they're interested? I know you've got some websites and some books.
Yes,absolutely. So our central place for everything you probably need is that shockinglydifferent.com. And we have a leadership programme there. We also have a leader network for advanced leaders that are not yet in the C suite. It's called Notable. So if you're interested in joining this network, you can check us out there. Thank you so much for allowing me to share Pete.
I'm sorry, we'll put them in the show notes as well. Karen. I may just close first of all by saying thank you for your time and sharing, not just the research and the tactics, but your own particular experience and nuance in that. And just to close us off with some hopefully lighthearted questions. Are you more beach your city?
Oh, city girl,
city girl. Okay. What's the last movie you cried out?
Oh, we just saw black panther who kinda Chad Boseman. Yeah, that's saying, Yeah, to be cry. I'm
sorry to bring that back for you. Is there is there a leadership author that you most admire or respect?
You know, where can I get a nugget out of almost every book that I do read? I always love the leadership challenge by coos Mays and partners. So it makes the leadership round. That's what I would definitely recommend.
Okay, um, what are you reading now?
Actually, I'm not reading a book. I have a collection of podcasts and articles and authors that I listened to and I, I use that as my information consumption right now.
Currently has been a pleasure. And it's been lovely to connect all the way around the world. Appreciate your insights. Thank you for sharing those insights. But more importantly, thank you for sharing yourself.
Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. You're welcome.
