Welcome to this week's edition of The Freedom Fridays podcast. My guest this week is somebody that I haven't spoken to for a couple of years. But I've seen her posting on LinkedIn, empowering broadly women, but broadly anyone in a new space, and she's gone from a very big corporate position to a very unique and very interesting place in web three. So first of all, welcome to Nickie.
Thanks Pete, great to be here.
Thank you. Nickie, You know, it's been a couple of years since we've spoken. And first question, I'm looking at your background. And let's just open with this Chief Meta Chicks with your wings on behind you, right. Beautifully branded.
I've always got my wings on.
Yeah. What the hell is that?
I can tell you what it was originally going to be and then what it's turned into, if you like, that's probably a nice place to start. So my first iteration of Chief Meta Chicks was when NFT's were going gangbusters in the web three environment. There wasn't a lot of women in this space, there was a lot of guys making a lot of money. There was a lot of hype around web three and NFT's. And it was very much, you know, waitlists and allow us and all of that. And I was kind of looking at the space going, here's an opportunity to build a community. So the first iteration of Chief Meta Chicks was, you know, female empowerment mentoring coaching meets Shark Tank in the metaverse. That's how I would describe it. And really, my idea or ideal at the time was that we would be hosting events in the metaverse so we would bring women into the space to help them see the opportunities to create and to create their own commercial entities, whether that's a business or whether that's just building creating and commercialising in Web Three, and then we would people on our second tier of membership. Originally, there was three tiers. We would allow them to pitch to the Chief Meta Chicks leaders for the opportunity for coaching. What I was, basically then I took a step back, I was dealing with an amazing executive coach as I was shaping this. And then you know, the market, the economy started tanking as interest rates were rising, and the crypto markets tanked with it. And there was a lot of rug pulls as well as a lot of really fraudulent and dodgy behaviour going on in web three space, which really kind of gave it a bad name. And to be honest, I really still see the potential there, which is why I'm in it. But I took a step back. And I thought women are not really ready for this yet, because they actually haven't had the education and seen the opportunity. So I took her step right back and went back to my purpose, which was supporting women in business and educating women on the opportunities in Web 3. And I thought, right, I'm going to launch this in a really authentic way, I'm going to bring on the most amazing female leaders that you can imagine across every category that you would need to get your business up and running, be it legal, finance, marketing, web 3, cybersecurity, finance, etc, etc. I'm going to bring them on board, and we are going to coach and mentor and help women's businesses grow and scale. And so any if that if there's a web 3 application, you beaut, that's fantastic. And if there's not, that doesn't matter, it could be anything. And so we've got a variety of different businesses that we're supporting at the moment. My leaders are all very passionate about supporting other women. And so we're helping build and scale their business whilst also educating them on Web 3. And doing that in a really gentle way. We're not ramming it down their throat. I think women juggle so many pots, particularly working women or women, running their own businesses and to lean into some of the technology. Then the new things in AI and Web 3 you need clear space. And I think women often don't get clear space, because they might be juggling kids and career and cleaning and cooking and washing and all of those things. And so to block out that clear space to go down a rabbit burrow like web 3 can be really challenging. So what we've done is created a virtual world. It's a 3d world called Chief Meta Chick's World built on the Curious Platform and all our content is available for members in there. And there's a whole screen on Web 3. And there's another screen on AI tools. And so we're really testing AI tools were showing them which ones that they can apply to different businesses and allowing women to discover when they've got the headspace, which could be at 10 o'clock at night. But you know, the kids are down and you've done everything that you need to do and you're going I'm carving out this space and now I'm going to get in here and learn and I know it's going to strain my brain but I'm ready for it. And we know with anything that the more time you spend in some thing, the better you get at it, it's like teaching yourself how to ride a bike or, you know, hit a bat and ball, you know, you've just got to practice. And so it's really creating the space and the time that works for women to lean into that space rather than setting it. So yes, that's Chief Meta Chicks.
Okay, right. Um only about 50 odd threads you've opened up there. So thank you for that. Which I'm going to pick up on in a second. And maybe for the listeners, I mean, they might not know what your back your past is, could you give us just a brief, you know, 30 seconds or so if possible? The Nikkie, that is of today that's in Chief Meta Chicks, she has come from somewhere. What attracted her to where she came from? And what changed that she left to create Chief Meta Chicks?
Yeah, sure. So my last eight years before launching my own businesses was with Zenith media, so I ended the last six years as national CEO and I was also on the global operations board, working in the media landscape you're at the cutting edge of everything new in that space. And a lot of people describe media agencies as cockroaches, you can never kill them. But what I could see was the landscape was shifting. And I thought, wow, if anything is going to disrupt the media agency model, right now, it's this current environment, and it's web 3. And I kind of jumped because I want it to be at the start of what was happening in Web 3 to become the expert. And I can see the challenge with brands. So if you look at traditional media, it's tanking, people are watching what they want, when they want, they're consuming what they want, and consumers are in control. So we've seen the double digit declines in print, we've seen it now in TV, and it's ongoing. And, and then you look at what was happening in the digital landscape and so much advertising dollars went to digital, because all of a sudden, we could we could show the ROI, we could show that this person clicked on this and they bought and you know, you can retarget. And so it was pulling money out of traditional media into digital media. And now with the upcoming retirement of third party cookies, which by the way, keeps getting kicked down the road, we're going to be back to a spray and pray. And I thought, wow, marketers is really going to be struggling here because reach and frequency, which is what most big organisations buy on is, in my view going to be redundant very, very quickly, because what budget review committee is going to approve at, you know, a diminishing return on investment, they're just not. And in the absence of being able to prove it. I was kind of looking at this landscape. And then sorry, the other piece on top of that is the privacy right. So where we've all been comfortable with giving away our personal information to these centralised players who sell their data to make money and sell it to advertising agencies and marketers so that they can target and sell their products and services. I was in that space, I'm you know, complicit in that space. But then you saying this change of tone, you're saying privacy coming over the top the the GDPR in Europe, and then what's happening in Australia, and we haven't landed yet. But I could see that all of this was going to disrupt the landscape. And I thought, okay, how a marketers going to engage their brands with consumers moving forward. And in my view, it's going to be community based. So I wanted to build out a community for Chief Meta Chicks and find an authentic way of bringing brands into it that add value to that community, but also linked to purpose. And so that's what Chief Meta Chicks is. So there's a whole lot of things that we want to support as we build and scale and grow. But it's also about giving brands, the use case for authentic engagement with communities and the opportunity to not look at reach and frequency to build brand awareness but build higher engagement and higher conversion. And that's where I think this market is going. And that's why I created Cheif Meta Chicks and my other business Alchemy Eight will be the expert in delivering that.
So if I summarise that as...
And it wasn't 30 seconds.
No, thank you. Well, which I didn't really expect to be honest. You had a very big, you know, powerful, influential job at the top of a big global company. And alongside that, being a woman with a number of different roles and hats that you're probably wearing and you made the leap to start your own business. Now I'm going to you know, my experience of you is outwardly very, very confident and assured but I'm going to guess also, there's still a little bit of you inside that was anxious, afraid, concerned, worried, etc, etc. One - is that true when you made the leap, did you have some fear, anxiety, etc, etc. And to how have you how did you overcome it or how are you overcoming it?
Yeah, sure. Um, When I make a decision, I'm pretty, I'm pretty there. And to others, it can look like I've made a rash decision, but it's not the case at all. Were you thinking about it for a while. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I could feel the sand shifting beneath my feet at the end of 2021. And I think a couple of things, I was so passionate about Zenith, I bleed blue, our brand was blue, I bleed blue. I, I kind of took that on, like, it was my own business, I adored my executive team, I would have walked over hot coals for them. And I loved taking, you know, young raw talent under my wing, which is why you know, my brand, we, you know, we take you under our wing and help you soar, that's kind of who I am. So there was all of those things happening. I think COVID really shook my foundations. The first year of COVID 2020, we had just won the Disney account we had on boarded the most amazing team. Wow. Yeah. And that was a global win that I was involved in. And it was just such an amazing achievement for me, but not just for me for the agency, because it kind of just really put us out there. And, you know, when I took on Zenith, it was pretty broken. You know. And through my tenure as CEO, I'd double the size of agency, doubled the billings and delivered six times the profit margin. So I kind of felt like I'd achieved. Thank you. I kind of felt like I achieved what I set out to achieve there, which was to bring it back to kind of the strength that I knew it from when I was a client of Zenith, well what was zenithOptimedia many years prior. So it was kind of it was that but it was the second year of COVID. That I don't know, I just I started struggling. I think, first year I was all about, you know, how do I keep delivering my numbers? How do I work with the group? How do I support them because our agency was doing quite well. From our portfolio of clients. We had a lot of FMCG and a lot of pharmaceutical companies and they were all spending. We just onboard this amazing team on Disney but studios were closed and cinemas were closed. And so I was using our talent on the Disney team to support some of the accounts in the Sydney market. And that's kind of how I managed it without making anyone redundant. So I was really buoyed by that process and quite inspired by it. But by 2021 with the Melbourne lockdowns, I was getting pretty down on myself. And that's hard for me because I'm an upbeat, energetic person. I do a lot of exercise, I compete in triathlons. My weekends are six hour rides, and 20 plus K rounds. And all of a sudden, I was stuck to an hour of exercise a day in a 5k radius. So you can imagine what that does to someone like me. Yeah, so I started, I started struggling a little bit if I'm really honest, and my people were too and I just kind of looked around, I just I to be honest, I didn't feel like anyone had my back, I felt like everyone was looking to me to support them. But I didn't have anyone that had my back. And so I started losing energy for it. And and I thought I can't be the leader that I know myself to be if I can't lead these people and have that resilience. And so I kind of knew that my time was coming to an end. And I, you know, I was getting frustrated. And you know, that's just not good for anyone. So I thought I'll wait until the new year, I'll take that break. And I'll see if things change. And then you know, got into early 2022. And my feelings hadn't changed. And so I was working with an executive coach, we were working out you know what next for me. And I have some other amazing mentors around me saying, be ambitious Nikkie, you know, you should be running a top ASX 200, yada, yada, yada. My passion has always been in marketing. But as being CEO for six years, I didn't want to step back into a CMO role. I didn't feel like that was right for me. So it was all of these things kind of playing together. I had already built Alchemy 8 media in 2018. So that was ready to go. And that was always going to be my exit strategy. I was always going to lean back into the sort of consulting brand strategy, branding, etc. And add media if I wanted to. So that was always my exit plan. But then I came up with the idea of Chief Meta Chicks and I started sharing that with my executive coach and she was like Nikkie, keep going, this is brilliant, keep going. So she started opening some doors for me to speak with people to shape it. And that really helped me to shape what Chief Meta Chicks is today.
So yes, it's scary when you you know when you decide to jump ship. It's scary, especially when it's something that you're really passionate about, but I was I was really, really ready to go. I think the scary bit that hit me is that I resigned at the end of March and then my marriage broke down in mid April. So that was where I had a shaky moment. I was very comfortable with leaving my marriage and I was comfortable with leaving my job, but put those two things together with uncertainty and then the challenge that comes with, you know, supporting your children. And, you know, through that process and the emotions with it that was incredibly tough for me. So that's where I had the shaky moments around, oh my god, I'm doing my own business. And now I've taken away my stable salary. But I, you know, I had a buffer and a decent buffer. So I kind of knew that I had the money to invest in my business, I knew that I had a runway to be delivering profit. And I was very lucky because I landed a foundation client through Alchemy 8, straightaway. So I, my last day was the 30th of September, my first day working on that client was the 1st of October. So I had income coming in instantly. And, you know, and I had long service leave and things like that. So I had some good shares in Publisist. So all of that was was helpful. So I did have that nest egg. So it didn't make it as scary a step. But yeah, there was some there was some second guessing along the way. But it didn't. It didn't change my decision, because my decision was the right thing for me. And my passion is in what I'm doing now. So yeah, I think the universe tells you where you need to be. And you've just got to be open to it.
Yeah. But first of all, Nikkie, thank you so much for sharing the double click, and the double click on that. That's, that's probably, I'm guessing, still rolling, imperfect. And thank you so much for sharing the vulnerability there. I'm interested in picking up a couple of things. And in an attempt to perhaps be supportive or helpful for others who are going through not necessarily a marriage change, but a job change, or two or three things that are complicit together that just multiply the impact on us individually. You said that once you know, you know, and I'm assuming there's sometimes a gap of two between once you know, when you make the leap.
Oh God yeah, are you talking about the job or the marriage?
I could go anywhere, like I said to you, we can go anywhere? Either. I'm interested in what what helps you get prepared for once, you know, and making them that that gap between, Yeah, this is not right. And actually making the leap. There, I'm guessing there's a gap of a day, a week, a month, a year, a lifetime? Yeah. You will be some principles to bear in mind going through that difficult transition in that gap between Yeah, I kinda my heart's telling me something, but I'm too scared, or my heart's telling me, but I'm not financially set up yet. My heart's telling me but I don't know why I'm going to any, any thoughts? Or what did you do? Or any advice you might give someone who's navigating that gap?
For me, it was sitting with the discomfort to the point where it was too uncomfortable. And it was time to do something about it. But I think it really depends on your circumstances. I found that by sharing my story, it helps others and you know, and so people will people will say to me, Oh, this is what I'm going through. And, you know, I think one of the important things is communication. You need someone to bounce these things around with. If I look at the career piece, I was hanging in there, because I was on a bloody good salary. I was in a great role. It was high profile, I was working with some amazing clients, I had an executive team that I'd hand picked that I absolutely adored, you know, like, everything was good. I was just bored. You know, like, I'd done what I set out to achieve. And I was saying to my boss at the time, give me something else. Give me another challenge. Throw me sport, throw me a digital agency. Throw creative agency, let me combine and be full service because my background was marketing. It wasn't. Yes, I was always in media. But I understood building brands, I understood the creative process. And I felt like I could add more value. And, you know, no disrespect to my boss, but those opportunities weren't there for me. And so it was a bit of a no brainer for me that it was time to move on. Because I felt stuck. And and to be honest, I probably didn't feel as appreciated. I think women need to feel appreciated. And I don't think I felt appreciated for what I was delivering. And that's that's not saying, you know, I you know, it's no disrespect to my boss at Publicists. I had an amazing career and I'm so I'm incredibly grateful for every opportunity that Publicists gave me like, what an incredible journey. You know, I worked with some amazing people and some amazing, amazing leaders and some incredible clients and I just loved it, but my time was up, you know, you just came to a natural conclusion for me, where I felt like I could do more. And I think I'm a very I'm a very straight shooter. As you know. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I want to make a difference. And that's not me thinking I'm going to change the world. But I feel like I've generated enough experience throughout my career that I can add that value to other people. And in particular, I want to add that value to other women, I want to help other women to be successful, to not feel constrained to not carry maternal guilt, and, you know, rack themselves with maternal guilt, which I did, too, you know, I travelled, I was a way, every second week, at least, you know, because our head offices, Sydney, and we, you know, my family was based in Melbourne, and that was tough on my ex husband, and that was tough on my children. But, you know, in the absence of us moving to Sydney, which, you know, he and they weren't prepared to do, I had to travel. And so to have my career, I had to make those sacrifices and, and I think, to be honest, they all saw me as incredibly selfish, which I think is wrong for women, because men are not questioned, for that, you know, that women are, and I find that really, really uncomfortable. And that's the kind of stuff that I want to be able to change. And that's the kind of coaching, I want to be able to give women, not to say, you know, don't do your job as a mother and lean into it. But to say that you are allowed to have a career and you are allowed to be successful, and you are allowed to stand up and tell the world what you can offer. And you should not feel guilt for that I just, for me, I find that really difficult. And I'm the mother of two boys. And I to be honest, I feel uncomfortable, that their perception of me and it's probably because they're teenagers is that I was selfish, and I wasn't a fabulous mother. So, you know, that's, that's tough to take. But it's not something. It's something that I look at. And I acknowledge and it's something that I feel, but it's not something that I'm going to let define me because I know that I'm a good mother, and I'm, you know, I can add value in my career and I can support other women to do so.
Here, here. Notwithstanding I sense Nikkie, for you. It was time, whether it was universal, whether it was career, whether it was you know, energy, it was kind of, you know, things were coming to an end in your in your professional life. For those for anyone who is leading, or managing women particular. And I know it's it's never, it's not as generic as this, but I'd be interested in your in your sharing. What what were ways that you weren't appreciated? That if you were would have been better notwithstanding, you might still have gone that you said, you know, just wasn't being appreciated, what, what was the ways that you weren't being appreciated?
You know, what, I think a lot of it, I didn't feel appreciated. And I think there's a distinction, because I think there's a reality there that certainly my boss was appreciating the profit margin that I was delivering, I think, the challenge that I had is or maybe it was recognition, or it was the opportunity for the next step. And I and I didn't feel like that was coming for me, you know, and I felt like there was conversations, but there was no outcome. And there's only so many times you can dangle a carrot under my nose that I'll keep running forward, there's a point in time where I'll find a new carrot. And that came for me. But again, it's not that's no disrespect, you know, my boss was fabulous. And, and to be honest, you know, I think of many of the bosses that I've had, and I told you about supporting women, some of the best bosses I've had have been men. And the ones that I have responded so well with are the ones that just point me in the right direction, because they know I'm an energy bunny, and I'll just go go go. And I'm very goal oriented. And they just point me in the right direction. You know, like, if I need to rein me in, or if I need to refocus me, they just kind of steer me a little bit, but they let me go. And that's where, you know, the best bosses I've worked for have done that. And they've empowered me, the ones that I've struggled with are the ones that constrain you and try to micromanage you and tell you what you need to do. And, you know, for me, there was times, you know, throughout my career where I felt that I've been constrained, and they're not seeing my vision and where I want to take it. And as a CEO, you want to invest in the areas that you know, are going to grow your business. I was delivering, you know, I doubled the size, but I was delivering six times the profit margin. Right. So for me, there was something right there. And I don't think there was a lot of recognition or appreciation for what I had built that was driving the commercial outcome. And I think that whether that was reality or whether that was my perception, you know, there's a distinction there and I think part of it was there was shit going on in my personal life? You know, like, I was probably feeling really unappreciated, and unrecognised in my marriage, like if I'm and so those things come together. And I think people, whether it's organisations, they need to understand the person as well. And there needs to be a level of kind of leaning in and understanding what someone or or giving them space to share what might be going on. And so I think for me, those things came together. It was time for both. It was time in the marriage, it was probably time 10 years ago. And it was time in the career. But those things came together for me. And so those feelings of lack of recognition and lack of appreciation came together, and blurred. And I think a lot of a lot of times you hold yourself together in the work environment, things can be falling apart, you know, personally at home or whatever, you hold yourself together in the career environment. And that's the last place that shows up. But for me, as soon as I felt those cracks showing up in the work environment, I needed to get out. And it was very clear for me that this is the time to go because I also wanted to kind of you know, you've got to manage your, your career, you've got to manage your brand. And you know, for me, it was time. So yeah, that was, you know, it was enough of feeling uncomfortable to go. Time to go.
Okay. I'm interested in the any insight on the leaders that you felt led you best? Did they do that intuitively? Was it trial and error? Or did they say, Hey, Nikkie, what environment do I need to provide to allow you to flourish and be at your best? Was there any of that conversation? Or was guess? Was it a chance? Or,
I think one of my most amazing bosses was James Coyle. So that was at Australian Super. He and, you know, I think the characteristic is lack of ego. James, just, he could see what I was going to add, and he was so happy for me to add that value. I'd gone into, you know, I came into so much energy into a very risk averse environment, which was not really a marry of, you know, who I am with environment, but it was the best learnings I could have ever had. And what James did for me is he allowed me to build and create and put branding on the mat for superannuation. And he never once tried to take credit for my work, he would allow me to present to the board I generated board experience and, you know, got to meet and collaborate with people like Heather Ridout. You know, how incredible like to, to be inspired by a woman like Heather Ridout was incredible. And James was just brilliant at giving me those opportunities. But also, you know, when I said tapping in the right direction, sometimes you get to kind of whack me little bit, which was awesome, right? And he never whacked me, but he would just he was, it was like he was the interpreter. You know, sometimes I felt like I'd be speaking in a language that he could trans, he could help me translate that language to board level. And there was times where it frustrated the hell out of me. But it was the just the best gift he could have given me. So James really catapulted my career by the empowerment and the enablement that he provided for me. And he was just an amazing, amazing leader, incredibly humble. Then I think of Ian Perrin who brought me on board at Zenith. So he, and how that came about was hilarious. So I was involved in the pitch for industry super funds. And I gave Ian a bloody hard time. So ZenithOptimedia were pitching, and I was asking some very difficult questions. And the last thing I thought I was going to get was a job offer out of that, because I'd previously worked at NAB, and I was questioning some of the case studies around whose idea where things were, and he could see that I knew what I was talking about in media, and they were looking for an MD at the time. And so anyway, long story short, ended up in that role. And, again, Ian cleared the way for me, you know, he didn't let me be constrained by some of the global holding group stuff, he just cleared the way because he knew that I could turn things around if he gave me the opportunity to and I now that I know what I know, having then been in his role. You know, I know how much he buffered me from that. And I buffered my people you know, from from a lot of that pressure that you take on as a CEO that you don't get to share with others. So that again, it was completely empowerment, it was confidence in me it was, go for it. What do you need? How can I make that happen? Giving me visibility of things that I needed visibility on and protecting me from other things which allowed me to grow. Then Matt Shames came on board and what a bundle of amazing energy he was. And you know, I was MD he came in as a new CEO. It was hard to have someone new come in after Ian because I adored him. But then James, you know, Matt James came in and and he was like, this is where we're going and I'm like You beauty I'm on board? How do I make that happen? And then, you know, he got promoted into a group role. And then he put me into the CEO role. And again, you know, we did that on a group level. So all of those things were amazing, because there was just so much empowerment, there was, there was appreciation, there was recognition, there was opening of opportunities, and just clearing that path for me to build and grow. And so that's, that's the environment that I thrive in. Yeah, so I've had some amazing bosses, and most of my amazing bosses have been men.
Interesting, okay, I'm going to pick up on that, because what I've took some notes on what you said, and what I picked up was the, for you, the amazing bosses had a lack of ego, they were humble, didn't take credit for your work, they were empowering and enabling, they cleared the way and they had confidence in you.
Yeah, 100%
Has that impacted what you're trying to do for other women?
100% 100%. I mean, my whole thing is, and always in my career, I've wanted to support others and mentor others and help them grow. And so if I've seen talent, I have tucked them under my wing and pulled them through, you know, and it's not about taking credit for who they are, they are their own amazing people. I've just opened doors for them, because I felt fortunate that people opened doors for me, and I want to be able to do that. And and I want to help more women to succeed, because, you know, we are battling, not just systems, but we're battling our own maternal guilt, we're battling societal perceptions of what we can and can't do and who we need to be and that we're too emotional. And, and there's not enough understanding of what women go through. And the hormones that affect women at different stages in their life to that impacts behaviour. So for me, I just want to clear the way I just want to help them provide opportunities and help women, if they haven't been comfortable in that corporate, bureaucratic, challenging environment that many organisations are, then how do I help them be successful in their own businesses where they can be their own bosses, and they can pave their way. And to be honest, I have some of the most incredible female leaders within Chief Meta Chicks that are just the most inspiring women that all want to give back to women. And that's why they're in my community, because they actually really care and they want to drive that change.
Wow. One of the things you said a little bit earlier was you didn't feel appreciated. Did you appreciate yourself at the time? And has that been some of the work you've had to do to date?
No, I think I did appreciate myself. I've always been an incredibly driven person, sometimes I'm misunderstood. So people see me as u00223ber competitive, I'm competitive with myself. And I think I found myself in an environment where I was being pitched against others, because they thought that that would motivate me to do more. And that's the biggest turnoff for me because actually, whilst I'm a very self driven, motivated person, you know, I do crazy Ironman races and all that kind of stuff. It's, it's self driven, it's not to beat others, it's to prove to myself that I can do it, it's to give myself a new challenge or something to strive for, to better myself in whatever way for me, not for anyone else. And people see that as competitive. I'm competitive because I'm goal driven, but I'm competitive with me. And when I'm pitched against other people, that is incredibly discomforting, like uncomfortable for me because I actually want others to succeed. I love motivating people, you know, I look at what I do in my triathlon club. I love bringing new people into the sport of triathlon because it's so incredibly empowering. It's so amazing for mental health and well being because it's achievement base, you're getting out of exercising, so you're getting the endorphin rush, I want more people to experience the incredible sport of triathlon, because it is a bloody great sport and you know, where some people might not have been successful in team environments, you can create your own goals and succeed and achieve in triathlon. And that's why I love the sport so much. So yeah, I think that's, that's where that comes from. It's, you know, it's understanding me and understanding what drives me what motivated me in the right way. And if you start pitching me against my peers, that's not who I am. And that was happening for me and it was very, very uncomfortable because, you know, I want to wrap people under my wing, and I want us all to win and succeed and I want to be a part of that. Not be told what to do. And this is how it is especially in a senior level.
Yeah. and Nickie, I'm going to pick up on the triathlon thing because I'm personally interested in curious as you know, but I want to ask a question. The language that you're using the experiences I've had of you, in person, this conversation, I'm reading between the lines that you've done some inner work, you've done some inner work on yourself. And it's an ongoing journey, once you start, you can't really stop, you just keep going along going going. If that's the case, have you looked into the genesis of where this competitive against yourself came from?
I know exactly where that's come from. I have over, you know, different times in my life, I've done different work, what I've done recently is really reflect. But before I left my marriage, I was working with a psychologist, because I knew I wanted to leave. And I was very conscious of, you know, trying to keep the family unit together and look after the boys and you know, they're going through school, and I was thinking all the time is not going to be right until they're finished school. But I was leaving so much of myself in in that process, because, you know, my marriage was not terrible. We were best friends. And but we lost our connection. And I don't know, for me, I'm a, I'm a, I'm an emotional person. I'm a feeler and I need to feel that connection. And it just wasn't there. And so we'd grown apart. And I kept hoping we'd come back together, but we just didn't. And so I'd been working with a psychologist for for several years. And she knew she knew I needed out, but she knew I wasn't ready. And then it just came to a natural point, which unfortunately, was in my son's year 12 year, which was not great for anybody. And but because I've made because I'd already grieved it years ago, and I'd made my decision, I moved very, very quickly. And that was very, very difficult on my boys. And if I had my time again, I wouldn't, you know, I would do things differently, it wouldn't change the outcome, but the way I did it would, would change. So you know, like, I've done a lot of self reflection, I haven't done any deeper work. More recently, I've done deeper work in the past, but I've done a lot of self reflection to own where I stuffed up and to try to just be a little bit more kind of not so focused, when I've made a decision to go and let let everything blow up around me. And I really, you know, did that and have quite a bit of regret for that in terms of where that competitiveness with me comes from. So I'm the middle child, older brother, younger sister,
Just reinforcing the middle child syndrome, aren't you?
My youngest sister was an incredibly good runner. So we all we both did Little As, right, netball, you know, all that kind of stuff. She was good at sprinting. I was better at long distance stuff. I didn't realise that till later. And when you're the older sibling, and your younger sibling starts kicking your butt. And they're the apple of your Dad's eye. So you know, Dad was the president of the athletics club. And, you know, he was just talking about how awesome Tam was, you know, she's gonna be the next does that mean that she was breaking records in under nine like, she was an incredible, incredible runner with a lot of promise. And I had to bust my chops to try to keep up with her. And I was I was doing it for recognition from Dad, you know, and I was doing it to prove to myself that, that I was okay that I was enough. And then I discovered so I did a dance drama degree at uni, which was awesome fun. And I was sort of teaching lots of class, you know, hip and funk and classes in the sort of fitness industry straight out of uni. And I ended up getting stress fractures, having to take six months off and looking for something to get me fit. And one of my fellow personal trainers at the gym that I worked at, was running this triathlon programme and he said, Nikkie, you should do triathlon, I reckon you'd be good at it. And I was thinking, You know what, I want to do something to get me fit. This sounds like fun. Yeah, no worries. I also also thought triathletes were absolutely bonkers. It's like, Oh, my God. I a friend of mines boyfriend was a triathlete. And I thought he was nuts. But and I thought, okay, no worries, I'll have a go. Anyway, long story short, I did that programme due to race at the end. And I was just hooked to the endorphin rush at the end of that, that sense of achievement. I was like, oh my god, this is just the best thing. So I joined the triathlon club. I started training with them, and I just I found my tribe, you know, and I think in anything, you in anything in life, you've got to, you've got to find what's authentically you. And triathlon is authentically me. So when I'm competing in triathlons, or you know, part of the triathlon club. This is who I am, it's my sense of self. So where I've gone through challenging times in my life, I come back to triathlon, it's, it's the bit that makes me feel good about myself, it's a bit that makes me feel like this is who I am. And it's the part. It's given me so much in my life that I want others to experience if it's right for them. And so that's, that's why I'm involved as a committee member with the Hawthorn Triathlon Club. That's why I've wrapped people into it all the time. So that's kind of where it comes from. But even though it's an individual sport, I love the team and the club aspect. And it's not just about me, you know, I can't push myself like I used to, well, I can, and I ended up just having an injury as a result of it. But you know, you know, I'm 50 now, so I can't flog myself like I used to, but it's part of who I am. It's part of my life.
And one of my other colleagues, who's in the UK, age group, world champion on a bike. And when we've been discussing things like, you know, choosing to or not choosing to, he's built such an identity around cycling, that there's no choice. It's not like he's choosing to breathe or not, he's literally or it's just like getting out of bed to having a shower and get my clothes and it's exactly, it's just part, there's no choice. It's not like I'm not choosing because I'm trapped by it. It's just, it's just me. And that's a little bit like, like you
100% Yeah,
so for the listeners, if you're not aware of triathlon is a, it's a swim, it's a bike, it's a run over various distances. What I am aware of, and I'd love you to share this, because my mind's gone, WTF. There you are, and one of the biggest jobs in your sector in the world, as a mum with a marriage, that's a bit rocky, and you qualify for Kona, which is the Olympics of the Olympics for any triathlon at Ironman distance, which for anyone who doesn't know is nuts, for any of us that have done it, you know, it's bloody hard. How on earth? How can anyone possibly come close to doing that?
We're going to hit the pause button on the conversation between Nikki and Pete for now. We hope you've been enjoying the journey so far.
In three weeks, we'll be back with another episode to conclude this intriguing discussion. We’ll hear what inspired Nikki to embark on her extraordinary journey to becoming an exceptional triathlete and much more.
We look froward to joining you again then.
