Welcome to this week's edition of The Freedom Fridays Podcast with me your host Pete Clark, The Whispers Guy. This week I have a fellow coach in the same field, although doing different gardening, please welcome Liz.
Hi, Liz, how are you?
I'm good How are you Pete?
Yeah. Good. Thank you. We were just chatting offline that certainly this part of the world, I'm in Australia and Liz is in New Zealand, that Daylight Savings kicked in. And now we do need lights, because most of our late afternoon calls are in the dark. Isn't that right?
That's right. It gets dark quickly nowadays.
It does. Yeah. It's something I found when I first moved to Australia, like 16 years ago. How quickly it gets dark. It it's almost twenty minutes, it's just dark.
Yeah, the sun just goes down. And it's like, boom, now we're here lights on, torch.
Yeah. Well, Liz thank you so much for your time. And we had a little chat before about your journey and your story. And you are a listener to the Freedom Fridays podcast and some of the conversations we've had with other guests, you've thought, well, I've got I've got an interesting story. And I think it is a very interesting story. Be fascinating for those that are listening. And so maybe we started by me asking you kind of the broad question. Liz what's what's the big change that you're going through?
Yeah, well, it's been a big change. And I think at the start of my stepping out, I could never have foreseen the pathway that I ended up. Now. I'm five years down that pathway. Okay. Yeah. But essentially, I started out life doing what you're supposed to do. A lot of people resonate with that. I went to university got an accounting degree, get a solid job. And it just wasn't working for me. And so I did persevere. 10 years. I think that's a decent amount of time. Yeah. And if and if it wasn't working after 10 years. It's like, probably not going to be working in the next 10 years, either. But yeah, I think even even three years into working as, in a respectable career, good job, I was like, something's not right here. So I probably spent the next seven years figuring out what I was doing wrong. And then yeah, I got to, I got to my thirtith birthday, and there's something significant about that. But I was like, I don't want to keep doing this and be forty. And I was like, It's time for a change. And so I did, and I, I think, yeah, it took for probably a couple of years in the lead up to that to be like, where am I changing to? But yeah, I stepped out, I resigned from my job. And I sort of closed the book on that chapter and was like, that's it I'm never going back. And so that's where the change began.
Okay. And so what's been the change?
So the change for me has been, initially it was go back to university study psychology. I want to be a clinical psychologist. Okay. So we are now five years down the track. And at this point, not quite. sStill studying? Well, I've actually just submitted my thesis. Two weeks ago. Congratulations. So at least I'm achieving things in the middle of all of this change. Yeah, it was, it was for me, I think, stepping out and I guess, removing myself from that certainty, that pathway that I'm supposed to be on. And I was I was trying to get my, I think, in New Zealand, chartered accountancy, they do have that in Australia, or CPA is another one. And I nearly got to the end, and I basically threw it all away, and said, no, I'm not going to do this anymore. And so to go back to university. Yeah, it was, it was scary. And I think it sort of dawned on me over the period of about a year, which is probably good because perhaps if I had a anticipated everything that, you know, that could entail, perhaps I might not have done it. I mean, it is a big step to do a career, you know, that you've done for 10 years, and I've been so persistent and to then go back to the start, I'd never studied. Yeah, yeah, I'd never studied psychology or even science, which is a very, you know, psychology is very science based. And in so it was just a completely different field, one that I didn't know if I would be able to excel in. And yeah, and to to do all that to like, cut the salary. Yeah, it was. It was sort of sort of crazy. In hindsight, actually, I'm like, what? How did I even do? So perhaps not too much thought into the process, just sort of like, I knew I needed to do it, that I was never going to be happy continuing down the path that I was continuing down. And in so yes, I started that process. And, I guess, having having the slight goal to become a clinical psychologist, but that's actually incredibly difficult to do I know, in New Zealand, but also in Australia to become a clinical psychologist, very, very competitive process. And, and sort of being open to options, like if this doesn't work, where, you know, where am I going? And responding to, I guess, my own exploration. Of what do I actually enjoy doing? What do I like? What do I you know, what ticks my boxs? What? What gives me the really deep joy? Yeah. And so yeah, and of course, the pandemic happened right at the start. In my, in my I don't know, if it's so much defence that I mean, COVID sort of was the catalyst for a lot of people I had made the decision before COVID came along. Right, right before it came along. And so I guess for me, COVID didn't really rattle me in that sense, because I had already made that, that heart decision. Yeah, but but still, you know, the, I think, in a way, it did shape my path somewhat, as it probably has for a lot of people. And as I've gotten into trying to, to explore what's going to work for me, I've realised I really love that freedom.
Okay. So there's a couple of threads I'm going to pull on one of which is that, but if it's okay with you, one of the things we talked about the start was, you are a professional coach, and you specifically coach people with chronic illness. Could you tell us a little bit about that? Because that's another thread I'd love to pull on.
Yeah. So I guess that ties in with my own story about why I wanted to change. Yep. I think working in a job that didn't tick the boxes for me, led me into a place where my health was sort of up and down. But eventually it got to the point where I was more like a permanent kind of health condition on my own. And that became the catalyst. In the end, I spent quite a few years trying to figure out what, what was going on with my own life. And once I sort of got to a place where I was like, okay, I feel like I've figured some things out. That's what was the catalyst for wanting to be a clinical psychologist, and it was to help people who had experienced similar to myself in this area of chronic illness and but specifically chronic fatigue. And so that, that's sort of that's always been my goal, I think, since making this decision. Right, I'm going to, to put aside the accounting, the safe career, and follow this pathway, because this is what I want to do. This is the area in which I want to help people. And it is it's I think it every time I sort of think, oh, maybe I should go and do something else somewhere else. I keep being like there's that pull to come back to, I want to help these people and this is what resonates for me and this is where I can provide, I think the deepest kind of help and my own lived experience. Yeah, so I have been working on creating a business for the last five years.
It's not as glamorous as people make out.
Oh, no. And we're not we're not taught it. And a lot of the time, I'm like, do I even have it? But I keep having opportunities come up and engaging in those and people. I think now there is more and more, I'm getting that momentum, people telling me just stuck at it, you're going to get you're going to get there. And I'm like, yeah, I don't I don't know where it's at the moment, but I do. I just let like that these natural coach and conversations come up along the way. And so, so yeah, so I do I love doing that aspect of coaching people.
Let me first of all, check in with you. How if you're willing to share, how was your health now?
Be a question. My health is way better, since I left, you know, accounting, a job that didn't resonate with me. It's progressively gotten better over time. And so I mean, I wouldn't, I certainly would say I, I live as though it could come back might and you know, the chronic fatigue and a lot of symptoms that went alongside that. So I guess there's a degree of caution looking if there's anything on the horizon, but at the same time, it certainly hasn't held me back. And I've basically been working full time and in that capacity and doing all sorts of different things. So my health is, is actually really good. Which is, which is what you want.
The story is not so good, if you're still as bad as you were.
Well, I mean, that's why I feel I've got something to offer. Because I've been through the whole process and been in some really low points. And now, I feel like I'm in a good point. And I sort of feel I can demonstrate that with what I've been able to do. And yeah, yeah, and I want other people to get to that place as well. I don't think there's any reason why people should be left in a position of poor health. And, you know, that's not to say that we don't have like physical and mental health, illnesses that are there, that there's things that we can do within our selves, our own mindsets, the way we frame things, and to make things better for ourselves.
And so in your exploration of your own illness and working with people that have, you know, I'm assuming you work with more than just chronic fatigue. I guess it's a speculation unless you unless you've got evidence in specific evidence, I'm guessing that we, you know, our health is on a spectrum, you know, from the worst to the best. And, you know, not necessarily talking about those at the worst end, and maybe looking into, is it even feasible to be at our best all of the time? I'm guessing there's, well, my question is, how many people do you think are currently living a life where their health is not optimised? But it's a chronic lack of optimisation as opposed to an event based.
It's really actually surprised me. And that's people that you wouldn't be able to tell either. Right. And so there's, there's certainly people out there that are managing whatever health condition they might have, and doing life. And, you know, especially loving life. Yeah, yeah. And, and I think, in a way, it's, it's sort of being real about the fact that, you know, people have our health issues and this idea that people are like this 100% health that actually doesn't necessarily really exist, because the more and more I go along, the more I I sort of realise actually, you know, people, they have all sorts of things that are managing, yeah, and it as you say, it's on a spectrum. And so, this idea that, you know, we have this incredible sort of position of health there's not I don't I don't actually find that realistic. But then it's not conveyed like that. Just like you know, that's the optimum goal almost. It's like this 100% health and and I think also people, they they have this sense that health equals wellbeing.
Oh, okay, go on, share with us the distinction.
Hmm, so for me, I conceptualise well being as my own sense of am I living a life where I'm happy? Where I am experiencing that deep joy on a day to day basis? In a way that my health whilst you know, if there's health issues there, that doesn't actually take away from that sense of I'm like living a life, I guess a purpose and a life that is meaningful to me. So, I'm trying to think of a way we're sort of like you have these sort of like, say, if we, if we translate into something different, like, like finances, like you, you say, you want to earn more money in, but you haven't been able to like you're in a, in a job where it's not, it's something that for you, you'd like to have more money. But that's not actually taking away from the fact that you're loving life as something that's something that's like, almost like this, but I'm still happy regardless.
Can I give you a personal example. And you might now how to help with the distinction here. So I'm a little bit hard of hearing in my left ear. And so I deliberately position myself on the other side, when I'm talking to people. And there's a little bit of a joke in our family. You know, we've come from the UK, to big celebrities in the UK to two older lads they're Ant and Dec. And the Oh, you always see them on the same side of each other. I think it's purely from a consistency perspective. So when I with my family, it's a bit like that, I'll always put them on my right hand side, so I can hear better with my right year than my left ear. So you could argue I think my hearing isn't healthy. Yeah. Does that sound right? And yet, it's not necessarily preventing or having a bit as a simple example, not having a big impact on my well being.
Yeah, yeah. Like your hearing is not perfect. But it's not detracting from you going through life doing what you want to do. Enjoying. You've just adjusted yourself. Yeah. To respond to that, that what we could say, is a limitation. Yeah. In how do we frame that?
Um, I'd love you to share again, being sensitive to your own situation and others, I'd love you to talk about when you in your exploration of chronic fatigue or any other chronic illness without necessarily putting a binary number on it, to what extent was it, I don't want to say cause, because that's a strong word, but to what extent did your mindset affect that?
And then in coaching others, how quickly how easily do you get down that route? Because I'm guessing, I'd love to hear was that something you discovered? Or were told? I work in the mindset field as well. And it's very difficult to suggest it's even mindset, because that sometimes digs the heels in. So first of all, to what extent was mindset part of your challenge? And how did you discover that? And therefore, how do you coach that?
Yeah, it's a really good question. And I absolutely understand particularly of people with a particular illness experience a lot of stigmatisation, you know, they, and like, even if we say, like, long COVID As an example, just because I've focused on it for my thesis. Yeah. And so, I mean, some people, I think there's a greater awareness nowadays, but even now, it's still contested, right? And there are people who are like, Is this really a thing? Or is it just, you know, people stuck in COVID? So the research is showing, yes, it's a real thing. Yes. It's absolutely like a physiological element to it. In so, for me, it was a combination of mindset, but also adapting my environment. Okay. Right. So, like, I would never ever say, it's just about your mindset, and nothing else. I think that's inaccurate. But your mindset is really crucial to to progress and adapting to your environment. Because if you don't believe that anything can be different and you know, not going to make any changes that could open up possibilities. Yeah. And so in terms of talking to people about their mind, see it, it's not okay, so much of you need to change your mindset because these people, a lot of them with particularly chronic illnesses that are misunderstood. They they don't need someone to come along and tell them you need to do XYZ and they need someone who validates them. And I think within yeah, within that validation that gives them then that possibility of exploring, okay, like, you know, we acknowledge we've got an illness. How are we going to respond to that. But if you don't have that validation, then that's what that's almost like, the first step is like, you just want to be validated for what you're experiencing. You don't want someone coming along, saying it's all in your mind.
But yeah, I can understand why that would be the case. And do you think, or to what extent do you think the validation is in and of itself about the illness or it's purely validation in and of itself? And I know it's not binary? It's probably a combination of both. I'm guessing, but I'm just interested if you have your own exploration, or when you're coaching people with chronic illness, to what extent is about the illness that they're seeking validation or is it themselves that are seeking validation?
Yeah, I've found that, of course, is always that sort of, I guess, anchor point with the illness itself. But people they will make comments like when say they get diagnosed by someone or someone validates the illness, that Oh, thank goodness, we're not going crazy. Thank goodness, that's like actually real. And I think it is that, as you say, that validation for themselves that they're not. Yeah, I think they're not lying, that they're not making it up that it is something that's real, that is more important than whatever that illness is itself.
Yeah, it's interesting, because obviously, you've got the placebo effect and the nor CBO effect, I believe. I believe there is a branch of medicine called psycho neuro immunology, which it is, it's obviously not as black and white as we'd like to think. The idea that our, you know, our thinking our unexpressed needs and wants and emotions can lead to pretty serious, chronic and acute illnesses that just shake yourself out of it or just change your mindset. It kind of is the solution, but it's not the way to go about it is what my experience has been hoping. Yeah.
And I think when when I explore other people who have been in the space for quite a while, like, they've been on their own personal journeys, like they do have a different mindset that that is a process in itself. And I don't believe that you can just press a button, wave a wand in just keep it alive. It is very individualised for each person. And I mean, people go on these kind of explorations all the time for different things, as many of your guests. And so you know, chronic illnesses is another one of those incidents where I believe it's having people in your team, people there to support you, and a lot of the time, sadly, people with chronic fatigue based illnesses don't have a lot of people in their team. Sure. Not all, not every case that certainly there's a degree of that.
My wife actually suffered chronic fatigue about 30 years ago, when there was nothing like - you're being lazy. Yep, absolutely. No explanation way back then. And it was quite challenging, in many ways, for me as the significant other. And I had no understanding of it, obviously, trying to be respectful and genuine about the lived experience that she was expressing. But it just didn't make sense to the other person me who didn't have the same thing going on. Did you have any, I guess, advice for anyone that might be listening, that is connected to our significant other of someone else with a chronic illness? And how might they go about supporting them in in a different way?
Yeah, I just think of my own story, it was actually my husband who, at the time wasn't my husband. He he was part of that validation process for me, right. Yes, yeah. And in so me, like going, going through like figuring out like, is this am I just making it up? Or is this actually something real? And he was very much sort of there to support me, validate me, just as we've, as we've discussed, like that, whatever I'm experiencing, I am experiencing it and therefore, it's a real thing. And so I think for someone who who's supporting their partner it is it does come back to that, believe them. That what they're saying is real. And, and that's really the first step is like this person, like, say, like, say with your say it was your wife 30 years ago? Yeah. I mean, if they're saying, I'm struggling, I'm just, you know, going to work, I'm exhausted, I can't do anything when I get home or, you know, I need to cut down my hours, then that is them expressing what's actually happening for them. Yeah, for you to then be like, even just listening and not sort of like taking that active listener approach and not going down the, you know, advice like we should he go to this doctor, or it's just literally sitting there in the space with that person. Yeah.
Forgive me if this was provocative, but I'm, I'm interested in exploring this. When does it go from acute to chronic? And maybe a broader question is that, you know, we're both both in the world of coaching and development and understanding the impact of language internally and externally, to what extent does the label chronic illness, feed the chronic aspect of it? Hmm. If at all, I mean, I don't want to disrespect anyone who's got long term chronic stuff going on. And I'm curious, to what extent does that label help or hinder any possible recovery?
Yeah, okay. So, medically speaking, chronic, is I believe it that three months or longer, certainly for chronic fatigue. So we're talking post viral, so and that would include long COVID, chronic fatigue syndrome, anything that's come off the back of a virus and has not resolved itself. So yeah, so I mean, clinically speaking three months. And in terms of the label itself, yes, of course, it can become a form of identity. Yep. Whether that helps or hinders, I think is down to the, again, to the way your that individual approaches, is their illness, something that's limiting their life as it stopping them, preventing them from living life, or is it something that's a catalyst or something that they can embrace almost and be like, Okay, this is this is this sort of, like set of, I guess, circumstances that I'm facing. How can I work with that, to turn it into something even better? And I think for me, cronic - it it just affirms that the it affirms that there's something there that needs to be managed.
Okay, I can see why that's a really helpful way to look at it.
Yeah. Well, it's again, that's reframing. It's real. A lot of the so And interestingly, for chronic fatigue, there's very few people, I think we're looking at perhaps 5%. Of the population of people with chronic fatigue, who actually go back to the way they were before they got that illness. Is that right? So the rest of the population of people managing chronic fatigue, have learned how to manage it. And you'll hear this a lot like people will, if you're, if you have enough conversations, people will be like, like, they'll almost make a distinction between the before life and in the afterlife with that event of becoming. Oh, yeah. And it will be the same with like with the people I spoke to about long COVID. And it was a bit in the early stages. Long COVID, I guess hasn't been going on for long enough that very much the before and after. And yeah, they're very distinctive events that occurred. And I know all of them said that they had actually recovered to some degree even if there was a minute recovery, but it was also learning how to manage it.
And to what extent, Iz is an event that causes it or is it a period of time that's kind of a slow drip feed into it. Because I'm interested in your journey pre-leaving the accounting. I thought I heard you say, I knew well, before I finished there wasn't for me, but I stayed seven years. So, you know, they had the idea of 21 whispers, you know, it was already whispering to you. But it took you seven years to hear it to do something about it. So again, I'm wondering how why why did it take you seven years? What what was not happening that you meant? Just any any thoughts on you know, that now that you're on this side have any thoughts on that?
Yeah, I think definitely, for me, my personality. A huge part, that I just I'm quite stubborn. I'm like, I'm not going to givr up. Yeah, yeah. It's just like, I'm goint to make this work somehow. And so that and that's interestingly, a, like when we talk about the all or nothing personality, okay. Yeah. Is such a high prevalence of people with these chronic fatigue based post viral illnesses are of that there's not a personality type, but there and you know, that type type A personality, like just go go for everything. Like very high perfectionist standards, there seems to be very common underlying theme. And
I'm guessing with what got them there was just gonna push through. Exactly. Yep. Just sleep. It's just I've just been exercising too much. I'm just a bit tired. Would you look at my job, look at the stress among the look at you know, blah, blah, blah, and was like rationalising why they feel chronically fatigued?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And in, because in the past, it's worked for them to keep pushing through. Yes, suddenly, it's not working anymore. So for me, I actually started struggling, that basically, the day I set foot in the accounting office, it was very quickly, within a few months, I will stand take a lot of sick leave. And, yeah, it was just, I think, for me, it was it was like, What's going on here, and there's always this complex interaction, right between, it's not just necessarily getting sick. With I mean, say glandular fever is quite a common example. They get glandular fever, they don't recover. But often, there's also the interaction with you know, that all or nothing personality type, you know, very driven, but then also other stresses that could have been in the, in the mix as well. And you know, they could be having something going on there. Oftentimes, that can be it seems like there's a bit of a correlation with previous illnesses as well. So sometimes, and again, it's not causation. I've got to be very clear here. But there is something there that hopefully will be explored more in research, where people have said, Oh, yes, say, like, 10 years ago, they got sick with something and it took, you know, a few months, but then they came right again, but then it's sort of like when something else comes along, but sort of like implodes them? And so it does seem like there's a bit of a mix of factors. And that's what they've found, I think, across the board with any kind of illness or mental psychological disorder is that there's this complex interaction of genes versus the environment. Yeah,
You know, we're trying to simplify something that probably can't be simplified, but I'm interested in your sense of, to what extent was it environmental or energetic. And secondly, which came first, the physical fatigue that you felt or the mental fatigue that you felt.
Now, for me, it was physical. I just, I had been, I've been having these patches of getting like a cold or flu, and it'll take several weeks, or even a couple of months to get better. And I sort of soldiered on, but it got to a point where I could sort of town, something wasn't quite right. And of myself, and I just didn't like it. It was very sudden onset as well just didn't have the capacity to work my full time job anymore. Like, I'll just be so exhausted. I remember at the end, this was back in 2013. So you know, a while ago, but just going and falling asleep in my car during lunch like for someone who is very much the all or nothing like I'm just going to conquer everything. It was such a bizarre behaviour for me to be resorting to. And so it was that that clear, physical, and then there was the mental fatigue. But for me, it was very physical.
We haven't talked about this pre-conversation. So I'm interested. Is there any, and I'm cautious about the word I'm about to use, because the connotation, is there any spiritual element to this as in this is part of your life path in some ways? Or is that? Have you considered that? Is that something you've considered and dismissed or haven't considered it? Just drawing you into the space of something else? Because part of you was on the wrong path. Now you're on a different path?
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, that's a whole probably a whole other podcast. I mean, for me, I so I have a very strict like staunch Christian upbringing, to the point where it was the you know, there's a lot of rules like you must do this XYZ, and this way, XYZ, it was very sort of regimented. And then definitely there was that aspect of this is what I'm supposed to be doing. In terms of accounting, then there was never really any attention paid to anything else. Even though the sign posts were actually the when I look back. And so I think we can almost like, yeah, it's almost like from two sides, like use that sort of was, like the striving point of I must do this, because this is what I'm supposed to be doing. But then on the other side, it's almost like, I've explored it from that sense of all of this has happened to me. And in a sense, now I can take it and use it to help other people. So there's that flip side, like so on the one hand use that there was almost like driving me. And we talked about this, like, not good enough. Just like not good enough, keep going. And then for me, like being like, okay, this is not working, trying to go down this other path. And as I've gone along, I've been like, actually, I'm starting to, in a way, be thankful for even though it was horrible, living through all of that, because now I'm working in the space the way there is so much need. And I can relate to people.
Isn't that interesting? I think my sense is whether it's chronic fatigue, or anything else that happens to us. It's only once you've experienced it on many occasions, when you find there are so many others sitting in silence having experienced that, too. Yeah. It's like almost like your experience has opened up a different domain completely for you.
Absolutely. Yeah. Wow. I 100% agree. And I think that came through very strongly with my thesis topic, and work with people, specifically, it was on people with long COVID, who had lost the jobs or lost their employment as a result of their illness. And it was, I think, had I not gone through all of that, I would have never had that kind of connection and interaction with with these people, but I understood them. And I could never have understood them had I not gone through all of that myself. Okay, that just that just sort of opened up these, like, really incredible conversations through through the identification that shared kind of understanding.
Yeah. And I sense and my experience of it was, all of that said, my youngest daughter has had glandular fever, and she has chronic tiredness. So let's see. But 30 years ago, when I did experience, you know, my partner significantly, chronically fatigued, there was very little understanding of it. So it's this is the right thing to say, I'm grateful that people have experienced that and are now in the realms of being able to support others with it. Because I'm sure there are 100 different versions of it. Whether it's, you know, you've lost a sibling, you've got chronic fatigue, your, you know, whatever it might be. The fact that we've all experienced those things, we can end up supporting people and we don't even have to talk about any empathy. We just are empathic because we've experienced it.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think I mean, there's probably another debate about whether you need to go through that suffering in order to identify. I mean, personally, I feel like yes, but you know, other people they have their own take on it as well. But there's just yeah, like for me, I think that's been for me a big part of my joy is that all of that that I went through, I'm now translating it into that empathy and without even really doing anything.
Yeah, you do feel the connection you've got, I feel the same. Yep. Liz, I'm conscious of time. Thank you so much for sharing your story and the real specific aspect around chronic fatigue. And I know I'm not I'm not I know, we're not neither of us are doctors. Now you're about to be possibly.
Any high level advice for either those who are going through chronic fatigue, or even those who are supporting others going through?
Hmm. Yeah, for those who are going through chronic fatigue, they need to know that what they're experiencing is real. It doesn't matter if someone is telling them it's not real. Yeah. It's not all in their mind. No, absolutely not. And in now, we're starting to see that scientific research filtering in with, with a lot more hard evidence, I guess of what is going on. But you know, you know, yourself best. And that is really key. Yep. And so and in terms of like, validation is really important. So if you haven't got your team around, you lay it and that could just be one person, or could be more than just keep searching. Because there are people out there who will come alongside to support you. And that sort of that first step towards a sense of recovery, even though the illness itself may always be with you. Yeah, that recovery is still possible. Yeah. And so for people who are supporting someone, as you had to believe, to believe your loved one. They haven't just suddenly, like lost the plot, you know, something is going on there. Yeah, yeah. And it's just, yeah, absolutely and just that validation is so powerful is literally life changing. But, yeah,
So given that Iz,, quick plug for you, how do we get in touch? How do people get in touch with you if that's something they're interested in exploring?
Yeah, I have been doing a post, I've been doing a weekly post on LinkedIn that took a wee bit of a hiatus, while I finished my thesis that if you follow me on LinkedIn, and my website is www.resolveconsultancy.co.nz.
Okay, and we'll put all this in the show notes. For anyone that's reading or watching. If you want to get in touch with Liz, please do whether you've got chronic fatigue or not. I'm guessing your lived experience of going through the big changes that you've talked about, is as helpful as anything?
Absolutely. I'm here to listen.
Liz, thank you so much for your time. Probably more important, thank you so much for you know, baring your heart and soul as to your experience. And I'm guessing you're still in it to some degree, although it's better. And thank you for being willing to share and be vulnerable with what's going on.
It's been an honour. Thank you for having me on the podcast. Pete. It's been great.
You're welcome. I think there'll be many people will be interested in not just in the chronic fatigue side, but just the chronicness of supporting someone with something that's going on for them. That's perhaps unexplainable at this point.
Absolutely. There's so many out there. Yeah. Thanks, Liz. Thanks Pete.
