Welcome to this week's edition of The Freedom Fridays podcast with me, your host, Pete Clark, The Whispers Guy. This week I have a returning guest, a good friend of mine, a work buddy and a soul brother who has probably shared many times questions that he doesn't know I've appreciated because I've then gone to live them out. So Richard Oakes, welcome to the conversation.
Pete, very nice to be here. As always.
We where talking offline that both of us have, uh, recently, ish, the last 12 months or so, and currently have gone through some challenging times, personally and professionally. And we were just kind of riffing off each other in terms of, what have you tried, what hasn't worked? What do you do? How do you navigate the feast and famine of life and stuff like that. And we just thought that would be a useful thing to talk about, to offer what has worked for us individually, what hasn't worked. And so that's really what we're going to talk about when things are tough, when you know life's not being abundant, it would appear, what do you do? So if I start with that without necessarily revealing what's not when, when life's not been abundant, what's your what's your immediate response, and then what's your more measured response?
Yeah. I mean, just going back, yeah, going back to the sort of preamble we had. We always asked that great question, like, like, what's how are you? What's going on, you know, and you know me, I'm not the sort of person who will give you a flippin or something. I'm fine. Thank you. Yeah, he's never going to get that from me. Yeah.
And I think that's the first
thing that possibly helps, is to be realistic about where you're at and not be afraid of that. Like to say, Yeah, you know, I mean, because it's very easy just to pass it up, isn't it, and say, yeah, no, no, I'm fine. Thanks. Yeah. Anyway, let's, let's crack on, because I do think there is so much adversity teaches us, or can teach us, if you can accept it like if you can really lean into
when things aren't
going well. You know, whether it's been in my Well, it's been across all facets of my life. In the last nine months, had a huge crash when I was going for the world record on my bike. So physically, I've been in the biggest hole I've been in probably for a long time after that big crash, after that big crash. And, you know, I'm also shifting, like, what my business did and what it's doing, and writing this book and launch it, you know, and sort of moving. There's a lot of moving pieces. And I think I said to you in the preamble, I can feel like, wow, I'm being tested. Yeah. Like it just, it's one step forward and two back on almost everything. And what's that saying? It's a bit cliched, like that. It is the darkest hour is before dawn, or whatever they say. So I think this sort of acceptance, or being aware of it, talking about it, I think is really super important. Like, if you can find like, if you can find someone who you can talk about this stuff too, it's worth its weight in gold.
I couldn't agree more. My mum used to say, I think I've mentioned this before, let your wind go free. Wherever you may be for holding it in will be the death of me. Can you have subtitles? Can we have some subtitles like, you know, let your wind go free. Wherever you may be, for holding it in will be the death of me, right. Okay, yeah. Now if you take the second part of that sentence, for holding it in, will be the death of me, yeah. And I think there's many of us. Who are you? You know, serial achievers, at least in our own worlds, our own perceptions of and suddenly it's not quite going our way, and we hold it in, yeah? Because I'm right. I'm strong, right? I can get through that. I've done it before. I'll just push my way through. How are you? Pete, yeah, I'm fine. Thanks. I'm good knowing for well, not but having outlet where you can say, You know what, I'm pretty sh#t, actually, without the response, oh, come on, buddy, cheer up. Yeah. Oh, well, why don't you just go for a walk, obviously, like this toxic fixology of, oh, I'm uncomfortable in how Pete's uncomfortable, so therefore I better cheer him up.
Yes, that's a very it's a very manly. It's a very male thing to do as well. It is not universally, not universally. I don't want to sort of categorise the sexes, so in such a black and white way, because nothing's black and white, nothing.
I'm sure there'll be women listening to this will be like, Oh yeah, I know where this is going. So I think this issue of being able to unpack it and talk about it, yeah. So what do you what do you think happens? What's what's going on for us in the unpacking, in the talking it out, what's the where's the value? Why is it valuable that we have someone or something we can just talk it out loud. For me anyway, I can only speak personally. For me, this may resonate for others, but for me, when I speak things out, it's sort of acknowledging their existence for what like you like you give it, you give it air, or you give it space, or you can becomes a thing, and in it becoming a thing, you can sort of relativize it. It helps to relativize it, like, when you talk it out, it's like, oh, well, okay, maybe it's not as bad as I thought. Or So, that's part of it. The second part is that, you know, there's nothing nicer than being held by another person, like another person's caring and listening, like, for me, that's really that's super powerful, you know, like this podcast, like this podcast, for example, is certainly helpful for me on this subject, Given where I'm at at the moment. So I think, I think that's the second thing. I think the third thing is that, you know, the energy is like an energetic process. So like for me, like in my body, I carry an end. This has an energy as a feeling to it, like a heaviness. And when
I talk about it, I always feel lighter energetically, like, isn't an energetic, oh, I've used to say, didn't there the old wives tend to, like, get the problem off your chest. You know, get, get, get the get a problem chairs. And after all those, all those slightly cliche things,
and
I find anyway that in the process of talking about it, it's a bit like that scene in one of the Harry Potter films, where they have to imagine their worst fears in that wardrobe thing, and they come out giant spiders and all this sort of stuff. And they sort of stuff. And they sort of laugh at them, and they sort of turn it into things that they're not frightened of. And I think sometimes, if you can talk out something, get it out, you really realize it's it isn't the the big, ugly, sort of frightening demon that maybe felt when it was just inside you, like just when you get it out, it's sort of these all linked down, like you feel lighter, you know, it's nice to be able to share it with somebody else. You feel supported. You can, you know, you can, you. I physically feel lighter, and so you end up, I think, in a place where not coping, and if coping is the right word, it sounds a bit too dramatic. It's like I said to you, it's like I said to you just before you know if you for me, if I talk this through, and I can sort of realize for myself that
actually
life is about applying yourself to the best of your ability, and it's who you are and what you're being that is more important than what you're getting. Yeah, and my problem or concern, or whatever it might be that what when I feel I'm being tested at the moment is I'm doing a lot of doing and being but the results aren't quite coming as they have done in the past. Yeah, and, and so, like, what's the test there the test I feel, I said to I feel like I'm being tested. What's the test? You know the test is. So that's the question, like, what do you think the test is? Back to you, I mean, well, back to you, on the thing about sharing, but also this thing about the test, what do you think the test is? Yeah, the couple of things that struck me. The first thing was this commonly used language. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was. And you've may have done the exercise, but you know the exercise, if you ask someone to hold a glass, you know, straight arm out, you know, yeah, Is it heavy? No,
well,
let's see then, is it heavy? No, all right, well, let's wait 20 minutes. Then, is it heavy? Oh, geez, it becomes heavier. Not because the glass has retained and gained any weight, but the strain on your arm of holding it, it's now really it's now really heavy. And I don't even know if there's any neurological or metaphysical explanation for us, but it feels like that our thoughts gain weight, almost definitely, right? And so they gain weight between our ears, yeah? And so the in, the speaking out, and I wish there was a nice way of phrasing this. You know, it's never as bad as you think. It's much better when you speak it out, something like that is it seems to lose the heaviness and the weight when it's literally the thought has come out of your mouth, and you're no longer holding it between your ears well or even holding it in your body like it like, yeah, me, it's not. It doesn't just sit in my head, without a doubt, it's an embodied experience. You know, it's a little bit harder to get out of bed, you know, when things are Yes, a little bit harder to go to the gym. It's a little bit harder to do my cycling train. It's a little bit hard. You know, everything is just a little bit heavier. Yeah, um, now the sort of the hard edged athlete, David Goggin side of me, yeah, you're being tested. Well, he would say, Oh, that's fantastic. You should absolutely walk towards that, yeah, you should get in there, because that's where the growth comes. That's where the
learning is. You know,
it's way more satisfying to go out and do four hard hours on my bike with Hill efforts, and it's raining and like you get home, it's like, wow, you feel so alive. If I just tootle ground the lanes for a few hours. You know, at 15 miles an hour, you get back and it's like, Well, okay, that was nice. Have you heard of you've also had a Tim Ferriss, have you heard of his fear setting exercise? It's something that he, you know, profess to practice every six months, and rather than goal setting, he fear sets. And the process is, it's interesting, right? Because step one to define your nightmare, to define the absolute worst that can happen, what doubt or fears and what ifs pop up as you consider the big changes that you have to make, envision that. Envisage them in painstaking detail. Yes, would it be the end of your life? You know, really go catastrophic in. Of thinking, yeah. And then the second step is, what steps could you then take to repair damage?
Yeah. So
how would you on track? How would you get how would you take the next step? How would you get things back under control? If the Wasp actually did happen. Then to talk, then to think about the benefits and the outcomes of both, you know, is there a lesson than this? Is there a gift? Am I being tested? Is it just bad luck? Is it bad timing? Is it because I'm done, you know, etc, etc, etc, and then what are you putting off most because of the fear? Yes, it's a great it's a lovely, worth confronting, and maybe not something to do on your own. Maybe it's an interesting process to go through when you're in it to kind of do a fear setting exercise. Well, I didn't realize I originally read Tim's book for our work week
20 years ago, probably, and
when I was deciding to give up my proper job to do my entrepreneurial thing, there was a thing in Tim's book. It wasn't as detailed as what you just said, but the exercise was, if you're going to do something and take a big risk, get a piece of paper, put a line down the middle list on the left, what's the worst that could happen? On the right. What would you do if that happened? So it's a much simpler, it's like an earlier, I think it's just an updated build on that, because that's the first two steps, yeah. And so I remember sitting there with Jules, my wife, and we did the list, how we did the list, right? And so I think it's interesting you sit down like, don't do it on your own. I'm picking up on just the if I've reflected my own, you know, imperfect processes. I'm much worse on my own. If I was to do a catastrophic exercise, I could be in a hell of a state, right? That the reflection, that the reflective part of it, might be beneficial on my own, but then I can see enormous value in reading out loud to someone like you. Yeah, and I'd find, I think I'd find more, I find it more healing and more releasing in reading it out to someone like you than reading it out to myself or reading out to a stranger or reading it out to the wall. Yeah, something in the that there's for me, there's something in the connection part. That means you're not necessarily attached to the energy release, but you're allowing the energy to be released. Well, I agree with that entirely, but I'm just reflecting on how it feels when someone asks you how you really are, and you start talking like this, like it, like it's it's not comfortable, no. And you can see quite a lot people they ask you how you are, but they don't really want the answer. And that's fine in the lift, it's fine in the coffee shop. It's fine in the you bump into someone in the supermarket, but, like, I find it really hard not to answer it honestly, that's my problem.
Yeah, I
there was a second part to my question to you about test. Test, about what's the test? Do you think is? Well, what do you think it's a test? Right to, what is it, if you think it's a test, and who's doing the testing? Yeah, yeah, right, so I'd love you. Think I'd love you, think I'd love you thinking on that. Is it a test? What is it who's doing it? Testing? Well again, look, the answer is, I don't know. I don't know, and I don't know, but I'll say something anyway. So is that well for me? Test? Kind of comes with a pass or fail, yeah, so I'm not, I don't, I'm not keen on the binary aspect of pass or fail, yeah. So is it a test? If he'd said to me, is it a phase? Is it a season? Is it a chapter? Is it something that I can perceive as not necessarily passing or failing, but navigating through? Yeah, and so then, if I go to the what's been tested without it being a test again, the answer is, I don't know, but if I was to answer it, I'd say, maybe, maybe we're being challenged to navigate in its broadest sense, life in its most practical sense, the slings and arrows that come our way. Yeah, one of the things so when you and I did the the Deepak Chopra, abundant challenge, the one thing that I've been noticing more and more, and the thing that I chose to kind of put front and center to work on is, and I don't know the exact phrasing, the essence of it being, why should I expect life to go the way I want it to, and being comfortable enough or being practiced enough with the lefts And the rights and the ups and the downs inevitably will cross my path, and I would say, I become, you know, point 000, 1% better at being okay with the slings and arrows that come my way. Still, still get triggered by clients, disappearing by friends, disappearing by not being acknowledged for this, that or the other. And you know, exactly the same as you that the paying it forward, Yeah, seems like it just one way sometimes, yes, yeah. And so this idea that is that forever? Is that a long season? Is that a test? Now your question about who's doing the testing? No idea if I was to give myself a practical answer, yeah, it's me, it's me testing me. And the reason I'd say that's a practical answer is because if it's me testing me, that gives me some agency, which is my MO that's my modus operandi, that if I've got agency, I can then choose to pass or fail or stop the test or change the test, but that's only because it's a kind of security blanket. Is there a higher purpose? Is there some other force in play that's, you know, somewhere, somehow, in, in some dimension, right? Let's test this boy. Well, let's he thinks he's good at mindset. Come on, let's, let's really find out. Yeah, because if it is that higher dimension for me, well, I've failed, failed, failed, failed, failed, failed. Well, have you asked the question, isn't it? Well, it still in some determination, right? In my own determination, often I would say that now, maybe not like we've said in others. And I wonder it came to me. I wonder if it's a bit like when the student's ready,
the teacher appears, yeah,
and if we do learn our greatest lessons through our darkest times, I pragmatically feel that's much easier to do on the back end, well, as
opposed to when you're in the middle of it, as
opposed to when you're in the middle of it. And as you were talking, I was writing down so you you're familiar with William Bridges, the transitions model, no, no. Covid. So as we transition from different stages and states and things in our life, you go from school to uni, you go from uni to job, you go from single to married. You go from childless to having kids. You know, whatever it is, you go from divorce those transitions he was. His research would suggest we go through three main domains. One is endings. The next bit is the new what's called the neutral zone, and the other is beginnings. Yeah, right now it never, often happens in that order, and it doesn't necessarily happen over a weekend. But it's I can when I've, when I've kind of done my reading around that I can reconcile the endings part, what's ending? What can I let glove? What can I hold a bit looser? I can reconcile the beginnings part, which is that, what am I looking forward to? What could I be in the future? You know, future, possible self, all that sort of stuff. And this description of them, the neutral zone feels like anything but neutral. It feels bloody horrible. It's like no man's land. It's like no man's land. It's like nothing to hold on to. It's like nothing's happening. You know, you can not no one's around. Nothing's happening, nothing's working. Geez. This is just terrible. It's hard, it's heavy, and that's how we would perfectly describe the no man's land. The neutrals on so it's running. It's anything but neutral. But it's this transition from something that's ending to something that's beginning,
and so the
like, but there's almost like a judgment that you've put on that as bad, like the words you used to describe that, um, we're all negative world. We're all sort of negative words, like, they were like, it's bad, it's terrible, it's a nightmare, it's it's no one's there, it's lonely, it's like, like, you say there's this association with
that zone.
I mean, I recognize what you've said there, okay, and what bridges, sort of research describes, like I can recognize the endings and the beginnings, and I would, I would say, I'm definitely ending something, or an end at something. I'm in the process of ending something, yeah, well, ending sounds very final, and often it's not final. You know you could separate from a person, but you still got kids with them, or whatever it might be, so it's always gray area, but I get the gist of the big three, the big three movements. And until you articulated it that way, I haven't sort of seen this period as this neutral period. It makes sense to me, like when I think about me, when you get into helicopter and look at the big picture. But the other thing I think is interesting is that it's very easy to talk yourself into that being a bad thing, very easy, especially for the serial achievers, yeah. And so you rush to the new beginning, yeah, you know, and yeah. But the more you try and rush to the new beginning, like, the less it comes to you, that's right, it keeps you in the neutral zone. So you're your own sort of worst enemy, really, for extending the neutral zone, like you said, like, how long is the neutral zone?
Is it for? Is it forever? It's quite hope. Not. Bad.
I mean, the the sort of purist, kind of Deepak Chopra version of myself would say you just have to be who you are in that space, yeah. And in fact, what he talks about actually, and this is common to a lot of meditative, the more kind of mindful, abundant type philosophies is that if you have a vision for the new self, and
you
do the inner work. On yourself, the mindfulness presence to now, to making the most of every day. You know, then you would you tell me, if you think this is not, not a right summary, the system or the universe, or whatever you want to call it, the energy field in which we go about our business, will guide you to the right New Beginnings, into them, into the new thing.
And so when maybe I've just got a bad memory, because I don't remember my life this degree of neutral zone, I've
done changes before, and, you know, and when I've kicked into changes that they typically delivered results quite quickly, I suppose. And so you then you get enthusiasm, then you get energy. Oh, this has worked. Oh, great,
you know, you put a bit of
fuel on the fire and it burns. Oh, great, that's good. Whereas, at the moment, I keep putting things on the fire and they just don't burn.
Yeah, it's like, oh, well, that's interesting.
Why is that? Have I not got the right vision? God, is that? Is that not right? So you start questioning, like, is that? Yeah, is that not right? So do I need to go back to that and look at that? It's like, there's like two bookends to me. There's like, the vision that you have all the future self you want to be where you're heading, but sense of direction I want to get over there from here. And then there's the what do I do every day? What's the habit? What's the practice that I do every day? And to love that and let the universe guide me to to there, which is sort of what I've been to this is interesting. I think I've been doing that more with this phase of my life than ever before.
Right.
Always before, I've been like, no, no, no, you can't let the universe bring it to you. You've got to go out there and kill it. Get out there and kill it. You're the caveman. You know the saber tooth tigers look coming to you, you've got to go and get it. And so I think I've been, this is very interesting discovery for me. I think I've been much more focused on the vision and focused on my practice of being present and those things rather than going to kill it, right? And what I'm finding is, oh, this is my inner story, right? This doesn't appear to be working,
right? So am
I beginning to panic,
all of the readings, all of the stuff that you and I have done? What's the message? What message would you say to someone who said that to you, what would you say to me if I said that to you? What's your reflection back to me? Well, what struck me was it reminded me of the conversation we had, and maybe even on our first podcast together, where I shared this distinction that I was going through in because I was exactly the same, and probably to a degree, still am, but life happened by me. I made things happen. I've got agency, and I'm all in I'll make it happen, even if it's not perfect. It's down to me, 100% 200% 1,000% responsibility, everything's caused by me. And it was becoming heavy. I was burnt out. It was becoming overwhelming, and I was getting getting tired of it. And I think I shared the book with you, 15, yeah. And the next phase was, and I only wanted kind of an 8020, split. I didn't want to lose all of the life by me I quite enjoy, because the next evolution for me was life happens through me, which is a small, but really interesting possibility. I. And I'm curious as to if, in any way, shape or form, you've kind of gone all in for all of life to happen through you, as opposed to a percentage or a somewhat. I
yeah, I've definitely gone a long way toward
have the vision.
Do the daily practice? Pay forward, help other people. Pay forward. Pay forward. Pay forward. Invest, invest, invest. Be it be valuable to other people. Offer your assistance to other people. Give out things to other people. Set things up for the people and expect nothing in return. And guess what? Exactly what's happening.
And
well, what's happening is there's not any necessarily material return.
Yes, that's true. And if I just if I was to do an audit on the strength of connection you have now to the people that you've helped and served, I guarantee it will be stronger. I
uh, yeah, yes, I can see that, but it almost it feels to me that those people have gone forth and said that's been great.
But bye. And what did you expect?
They're humans, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I suppose, like the question this, is that, like I said, this question about the test, and I thought your answer is really interesting, like, sort of you cop. You sort of copped out to that. He copped out a bit like you. And I don't know, don't know, don't know. But then you did go on to qualify, I don't know, but this is what I think do. Sometimes that's all we have. Arguably, that's all we have anyway. For anything, we don't know anything.
But I guess it's a tip.
I don't think it's a test. I don't think it's a test. I think it's, it's probably, it's life. It's like what life is.
One like.
Why is life like that? I think because that's if you're really willing to step into this space that you and I have been dabbling with, I've probably gone down it a bit more than you. That's what it means to be alive. That's what it means to be at the service of other people, to be there for others, to not be totally attached to the resort to the materialistic side of it, to be in The Now like it, and who is doing the testing?
I think it, for me, it's this sort of, it's like the universal consciousness. It's like the connected consciousness of, yeah, of us all, like we're all connected at the end of the day. I think, I think, I don't know, but it's back to this universal conscious idea that we tap into, and we carry a small part of that around in our hearts and souls and brains, and it's our bit. Our bit sits in these bodies and we go off and do what we do with it. Um,
and so the
what's been very interesting about this conversation
is
it poses to me this question, am I actually. In this struggle in the neutral zone,
finding
what it feels like to be a slightly higher version of like a better version of myself and more complete version of myself. That's a great curiosity. Yeah, and why that I think speaks to my character is, if you take my sporting achievements, when you get to a certain level of I capability. Let's say you might become the top 10 athlete in your country, or whatever it might be, top 20. That takes a certain degree of suffering and self encounter. And if you want to be the best version of yourself and compete, say, on the world stage,
consistent, consistently. You have to take something for a different realm of
self, encounter, challenge, difficulty, suffering, hardship, injury, whatever it's like, whatever you want to have the one who paint the picture and anybody who's mastered anything will tell you the same story, right? They've got to the top of their tree, or they've got it's always, you always hear the same story. And so if I was to draw an analogy to the test that we've talked about, like the suffering or the test, or the chapter or the phase, or whatever. Yeah, right, I always test pass fail, yeah, I get that. But I'm more in the Pass Fail bracket thing because of my sporting background, because, like, if you can, if you can master it, you'll win, and you become a world champion, or whatever it is. If you don't, you won't, and that's it, yeah, but I do acknowledge totally like it's not your point. And so this feeling, I what language description energy Am I giving this feeling when I'm in the neutral zone, and the athlete in me would say, you need to tell yourself, this is the work that needs to be done. This is the feeling, this is the hardship, this is the toughness, this these are the hard yards, which for you to emerge as a good champion or a better ticket, whatever the equivalent is. And so I think I need to reframe, and I would argue, in the way you described it, maybe you do too and engage with journal will do some work on the story, the narrative that goes along that neutral zone. I
because it I've been dragged, dragged. That's the right word. I've ended up
with a narrative in this neutral zone. It's not
a good one. I
I mean, actually, if you think about it, if you are, you know the story about the butterfly, the woman who helps butterfly, and she picks, she picks the catalyst, and because the butterfly then flops on the floor, we can't fly. Yeah, she's traumatized. Oh, my God, I thought I was helping. No, the reason the catalyst is hard so the butterflies wings can push out. And in the process of pushing out, the butterflies wings built strength for it to fly. That's a great story. Yeah,
if we're not careful in this neutral design, you could look for things there are the equivalent to someone picking the catalyst for you, someone cracking open, cracking open the catalyst. But actually, what you got to do is you've got to be in there. You've got to feel that struggle in the neutral zone and realize to get to the the new version of yourself, whatever that needs to be. This is, this is where it's at, this energy, these feelings, these.
Can I speculate with him? Yeah, please come on, rambling on a bit.
So in your abundant practice, in all of the giving, as you've done, as you've said, you've given, you've paid it forward, etc, etc, etc, and then tagged on the end, the philosophy is without expecting anything in return. Right, to give, give, give without expecting anything in return. That's, that's the philosophy. Who tagged that philosophy on the end? You did. You said, you know, that's the philosophy about, you know, abundance. I need to, you know, give and pay it for without expecting anything in return. Yes. And in the next breath, we're talking the practical examples of maybe the athlete, which is coming out, because then all those people have come and gone bye. Yeah. And I'm just curious is, do you sense any energy in that, as in, is there a tension between the philosophy of not expecting anything in return with the practicality of, well, maybe a little bit would be nice. Totally. 100% 100% 100% and it's in that little thing you've just identified there, where the development edge is, where the growth is, where the Learning Mastery bit of this abundance journey is presenting itself. It's like that is very hard
to sit with and
you know, yet the greatest teachers ever, you know, but they'll say, Ah, yeah, but that's where it's that's where it is. There's that, there's there, that's the there's the agenda. That is it Yeah? Which, again, you know, speaks into, you know, full surrender as opposed to partial surrender. And it's easy for me to say, because I'm not in your world, I could probably argue the case for Boy, you've had to return more than you'd ever imagine. It just hasn't happened yet.
Say that again,
this idea that nothing's come back, I could probably make a case for it hasn't come back because the circumstances haven't appeared yet. If I take you to end of life, yes, yes, right, yes. I was speculating with the numbers you've now just probably and gained is the wrong word, because you're not doing it for gain, but you've now just got another 50 people coming to your funeral because of the impact you've had lives. Yes, that's priceless, yes, for the impact you've had on their lives, yeah, without even knowing you've planted seeds the shade of which you'll never experience, correct? And therefore you've got to reframe the or have you got to reframe like you? Either just accept that
that's it, that is enough.
Move on. Well, I do like your um rider there for now. I do like that. I tell you I really like that, and because, well, one of the things that bridges says around the neutral zone is things like, Do you have any agency here? Where do you normally get your certainty from? What structures can you put in place to create some certainty whilst all around you is apparently chaotic, and for me, not this for me, if I'm in the neutral zone, and I can add that little for now, that gives me a tiny bit of something to hold on to. Yeah. I mean, my structures would be
the creation of that future state vision
where I'm heading to. Uh,
which other has a ride underneath it? Which is I'm going towards that destination whilst I've got a breath, right? That would never I'll never stop heading towards that destination, that future version of myself, which where I want to be and who I want to be, and then I come back to the now and then it's this, my discipline and consistency of the practice of who I'm being each day and what and that, then that, then you develop your habits and your practice, and you know how you show up and all that sort all that sort of stuff. And
what I'm grappling with
is I want that to be enough, and
I want to see what
the universe
brings that's just host
this. Just give us this just came up on my CPD, yeah, do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy. Now, walk humbly. Now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
There you go. Amen. So that, yeah, amen,
for that, for now, for now. So make something off for now. Yeah, so if you take that, that feed, that comment, that, that thing you just read out then,
and you
because this is where this like notion of happiness comes in, like, like, are you happy with that? Does that make you feel good? Does that make you feel happy? Do you feel like that? That is enough, right? And I go back to a few things Jim Carrey said in recent times where he's talked about this. Has talked about exactly that I am enough. I have enough. I've done enough. I don't I can like that. And I and this struggle that I'm in at the minute
is described by that
reading, yep, I it
is perfectly described by, what can you bring your feet? Yeah. But here's the serial achievers problem, isn't it? Because it's like, what's not enough, like I need to go like, I need to get more kill, more capture, more. Do more like, Get get more in. And
this goes full circle back to is this my period where my butterflies, wings, neat. And then it's back to your wonderful observation. This is a phase. Is that butterfly being tested? Right? Is it being tested? Now you could argue it is because if it fails to build its wings out, yeah, or someone peels the thing off, it's, I was going to say, left, but it's, it's not in a good place, because it cannot fly, and it dies and perishes within minutes of Whatever. So it can't fulfill its potential. Now you can could say that's not a test, that's a phase, right? The butterfly has got to go through the phase of pushing against the catalyst, pushing, pushing, actually pushing, pushing, pushing until it reaches the point where the wing is strong enough to break the cathode. But if you're the butterfly that probably doesn't feel too good, probably doesn't right, you're probably thinking, holy shit, I'm stuck in here. This is not great. I need to get the hell out of here, because this is getting uncomfortable. Yeah, and I think I don't know, but I think my conclusion is, there is a conclusion from this conversation, is that, is that the this is for me, whether this helps others or not, I don't know, but for me, for me to get through to the next beginning in this neutral space I am in the butterfly catalyst like I am in that I've just got to sort of tough it out, you know, and but see it like that, I think that's the important thing, is to see it like that. And this idea of the beginnings and the neutrals and the ends and like has been really helpful in, in in me coming to that conclusion that enables me to get from where I am now to where I want to be. And it might take me 4030 years. Might take me 30 years together, yeah,
but it is without question. When I look at the vision and the version of myself, it is the path I want to go on and back to your 8020 I've got much more. I've gone the other way. Yeah,
I've gone 9010
Yeah, it's not like the fearful athlete would do that. Would they fearless athlete? I don't know. Actually, it's a good point, isn't it? But I really was totally taken about backed by the Deepak chopper work, and I've always been in that area anyway, as you know, but it really spoke to me in this phase of my life, in this neutral phase, that actually what you need to be about is giving to others to allow them to become the best, better version of themselves, in a in a more, not in a corporate sense, you know, yeah, pay me lots of money to do some really cool corporate consulting, transformation and leadership stuff that You and I have done for years. But actually don't pay me anything or pay me very little, to get a handle on all the stuff you and I have learned and crafted and put together
so people can
understand better their lives and what they want to do and their families. And it's a hypothetical, so I'm framing it as that. But if you knew that, in all of your abundant sharing with the people that you've shared with so far that you've saved a life, if you knew that, right, somebody mentioned somebody towards you, blah, blah, blah, you know, blah, yeah, you know, if you knew that had happened, would you expect anything else in return? No, no, because even one life saved. And that doesn't mean that person might take their own life, but it but saved. You know that they've that they've that they were pretty miserable and they found
a new
vibrancy or a new purpose or new meaning, and had got their mojo back. Yeah, yeah,
that that, that's,
that's me living to my new vision and purpose of myself. Yeah, that is it. That is it so, so there can be no more Maslow self actualization pyramid. You know, there can be, there could be no higher order of me being the person I really like. That's there are some other material things that go along, that go behind. If I can remember, I'll send you the podcast link. But there was a podcast recently I listened to, and it was some guy who did some research on Maslow, yeah, and some of the readings that are not well known, Maslow came to the conclusion that he was wrong. Oh, interesting, that the highest level is not self actualization. The highest level is transcendence. Right, transcendence of self, not self act. Actualization, yes, yeah, that makes sense me, whereas transcendence is about what you are doing, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So in the self actualization, in my definition of it, it is to have gone beyond doing things for me and really helping right people to achieve what they need to achieve. And so I'm sitting here wondering, as you're talking, if perhaps there has been a return you just haven't seen it yet, or are you are the old Richard, the ending, Richard has a blind spot to the return that may already be abundant all around you, correct? I think that would be a very As with most of your reflections,
valuable. Wise reflection.
And I think that, you know, you bringing in bridges, work has been really helpful, like, really helpful, I think for both of us, actually was really off of me.
Yeah, and
you know, these conversations are always massively
insightful for me.
So well we set it up as times, you're going through some struggles, you're going through the neutral zone, maybe listening to a conversation that you weren't meant to be listening into because it's between two, you know, deeply connected friends, then it might be helpful for someone, it might be helpful for someone to hear how others navigate or don't navigate it, yeah, how the talking out of it can be helpful. So I'm so grateful for your courage, your humility and vulnerability and willingness just to sit in it. Yeah, feels like that, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. It does. So it really feels like we're sitting in it. I'm really grateful.
Oh well, the feeling is always so mutual.
Thank you for sharing
Anytime, my friend.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
